Here's what I'm hoping for in season 3 from the King's Landing crew. I'm hoping the Joffrey weds Margery Tyrell, since she could be more than a match for him -- and Cersei too! That would be such fun! I wish Sansa had gone with the Hound, since that would be more interesting than watching her skulk around the Red Keep. I'm not sure where they can go with her character.
I'm not sure why Tyrion isn't the Hand anymore. Does Tywin Lannister really plan to stay at in King's Landing to do the job himself? I thought he had a war to fight, and Tyrion was doing pretty well as the Hand in his stead. I would hope that Tywin goes back to war, although I would love to see him smack Joffrey around a bit. And Tyrion...I can't even begin to imagine what happens to him in season 3. I don't think you can keep Tyrion down for long.
Ten episodes is certainly long enough for Jaime and Brienne to make it to King's Landing, but I get the feeling they'll get as waylaid as Lady Stark did on her way back to Winterfell in season 1. Or at least I hope so! Their scenes together were fantastic, so I'm hoping for lots of them. I can't imagine arriving in King's Landing would work out well for Brienne. She's too much fun to end up with her head on a pike -- at least for a while.
Varys and Little Finger...I'm just hoping for more of the same from them. Political maneuvering, witty banter and backstabbing. I can't think of any particularly fitting or likely plotlines for them. The new alliance between Ros and Varys could turn interesting, although I'm not particularly excited about it.
Lancel is such a weenie. I hope someone kills him this season, preferably sooner rather than later. Maybe Jaime can return and do the same thing he did to his other cousin. The joy of watching Tyrion mess with him has worn off, so I think dying is the only thing he can do this season that would make me happy.
I love Cersei! She's so evil and ruthless, yet so sad. I'm hoping for some great scenes with Cersei and her father -- I'm sure he has a few things to say to her... And I hope she doesn't let him or anyone else get the best of her. I'm not sure what I want for her this season, but I imagine we're in for more power struggles with her son, her father, Margery Tyrell and the small council members.
Are there any King's Landing folks I've missed? That we care about, that is? Oh yeah, Shae. I wonder if Tywin will find out that Tyrion defied him and brought her along. Maybe he'll pass her around for a silver piece per man, just like last time Tyrion found love. I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei remembers Shae, so maybe a chance encounter in the Red Keep will lead to some intrigue. Shae needs to do something drastic, because she's becoming boring. I know she's trying to be spunky, but she's no Arya.
I think Tywin pretty much feels that after Stannis' defeat his best defensible position would be Kings Landing, he just ironed out an alience with the Tyrells and their significant forces.
What are your thoughts on Jon, Catlyn, Arya and Robb?
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
As a book reader, this woman must tread lightly, but sees that comment is welcome here so will go on while imagining things as if I had not read the books. Agree with DNA that Tywin would perceive keeping KL and the throne safe is of paramount importance once he had seen an assault on it by Stannis. Seeing that Tyrion is no longer able to lead an army would add to that conviction to stay in place while the fringes of the war play out in other areas. Remember that Tywin feels he can buy the loyalty of Westerosi several times over if he wants to, and his motivation to stay in KL makes more sense. Who'd want to stay in a tent again after the luxury of the Tower of the Hand?
In the world of this woman's imagination: S3 finds Jon Snow growing and maturing in his knowledge of how the world truly works (outside of his sheltered upbringing), and how supernatural forces are more real than he knew. Dany is increasing her wisdom and learning herself how politics vary from place to place and how she must learn to play situations for her own advancement without screaming about "Fire and Blood" all the time. Arya would have followed Jaqen at the end of S2 in my version of the story so that she can return to Westeros someday as a strong and talented assassin ready to take on her list, and Robb would be swooping into KL with a reinforced army (after taking the Iron Islands and their navy, and marrying Yara...Talisa who? Frey who? What what?) to tackle Tywin and win the throne. In my imagined version, Catelyn would find her boys on the road and could barely contain her joy to find them alive, joining them in their trip to the wall (once Howland Reed tells her that JS is not Ned's, but Robert's and she must tell him after treating him so poorly for so long). In my version, JS and grown Arya join together to defeat the Lannisters with Dany at the helm, and the 3 heads of the dragon are Dany, JS, and Arya. In this version, Sansa does find her freedom by marrying one of King Robb's most loyal bannerman and re-building WInterfell as the Stark family seat. In my version, all wolves return to their Starks, and Nymeria has a litter and Sansa adopts a 2nd cub as her own, calling her Lady the Second. The other cubs become the wolves of her children and Nymeria stays with Arya after whelping her pups (she has triplets right off the bat). And then Dany marries a Dornish prince, JS goes back to man the wall, Arya stays on as Queensguard and the realm lives happily ever after. Of course this takes 5 more books.
Black as Snow The reason why Tyrion is no longer the Hand of the King is because Tywin the original Hand is now back in the KL hence there's no need for Tyrion to fulfill the role. If Tywin should leave, I'm not saying whether or not he will, he will appoint another caretaker Hand again. And if you think on screen Shae is boring, you do not want to see book Shae. And wait a few seasons before judging Lancel too harshly.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
If Tywin had things well in hand in the North, it would make more sense for him to stay in King's Landing, that's all. Since he's been getting his butt kicked by Robb Stark, it seems strange that he would walk away and allow the Stark forces to progress any further south. My understanding was the even Casterly Rock could be endangered if the Starks' progress was not halted. Tywin doesn't seem to have any competent generals he can rely on (except for Jaime, who is indisposed). So it just doesn't make much sense to me for Tywin to take up a defensive position to the south instead of an offensive position closer to his own holdings. Then again, there may be important strategic reasons for Tywin to remain in King's Landing for a time. If so, I hope they are clear in season 3.
If Tywin had things well in hand in the North, it would make more sense for him to stay in King's Landing, that's all. Since he's been getting his butt kicked by Robb Stark, it seems strange that he would walk away and allow the Stark forces to progress any further south. My understanding was the even Casterly Rock could be endangered if the Starks' progress was not halted. Tywin doesn't seem to have any competent generals he can rely on (except for Jaime, who is indisposed). So it just doesn't make much sense to me for Tywin to take up a defensive position to the south instead of an offensive position closer to his own holdings. Then again, there may be important strategic reasons for Tywin to remain in King's Landing for a time. If so, I hope they are clear in season 3.
This was a bit of a surprise in the books but not a big one. It says a lot for the character GRRM spent many pages educating
us about. Lord Tywin is a great strategist and even shrewder off the field among family and friends. Still you gotta admire
the man, he's principled and intelligent. Some would say perfect as a leader, that is if you are a former Casterly family
member from Casterly Rock or the one of the Reynes from Castemere. Jaime's character owes his fame to Nicolau Costa-
Waldu's good looks. He's a mix that you will not have an accurate sense of unless you read the books as I urge you to
do. Jaime is brave, not courageous but neither strong nor weak. What makes him special lies in the book.
Jaime managed to "smash the River lords at the Golden Tooth" because he outnumbered them 5-1 or something like that. Not cause he is a good general. Haha can you believe when Nic was cast some people complained about his nose saying he wasn't handsome enough. Anyone how do you add spoilers?
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
I think Tywin pretty much feels that after Stannis' defeat his best defensible position would be Kings Landing, he just ironed out an alience with the Tyrells and their significant forces.
What are your thoughts on Jon, Catlyn, Arya and Robb?
From my take on GRRM's sick sense of humor, the appropriate series of events would be for Tulisa (sp?) to betray Robb, for Jaime to somehow end up at the head of an army again and kill Robb, leaving Catlyn to reap what she has sown. But I don't think all of that will happen -- at least not in season 3. But I don't trust Tulisa. There's no way for Robb or Catlyn to verify anything she has said. I don't know whether she is a spy or a free agent who wants to take down the Starks, but either way, she's bad news. And Robb is every bit as naive as Jon.
I imagine there will be hell to pay for Robb breaking his agreement with the Freys. A number of Freys and Frey forces are with the Stark forces, so maybe they will betray him for his actions. Or maybe that bridge will once again become vitally important... In any case, Robb's actions have most likely let Arya off the hook, so there's a positive aspect to Robb's poor choices.
I think Catlyn and Jon will survive season 3, but I'm not so sure about the other two. The simple path for Arya would be for her to meet up with her brother's forces. But that is TOO simple. She will certainly be waylaid on her journey. I can't imagine by what, but I'm hoping both she and Gendry survive the season. I'm sure she will evolve as a fighter this season, as will Gendry. I think for Mrs. H'Ghar's sake, Arya should repeatedly use that coin this season! All she needs is to find a Braavosi. Unfortunately, I doubt the new Jaqen would be as handsome as the old one.
Gendry is an enigma to me. He had some relevance in the first season because of his parentage, but don't see why he would be relevant to the greater picture of who should be king. Or there could be an entirely different scenario, where Arya and Gendry do meet up with Robb. Robb and Gendry could come to a similar arrangement as Robb (tentatively) had with Renley -- Robb supports Gendry's claim to the throne, and Gendry supports Robb's position as King in the North. But even if they come to such an arrangement, I don't think they could succeed.
Catlyn should end up at Riverrun, her childhood home. She doesn't really belong in the North, and unless Robb is going to send significant forces back to Winterfell, she would be foolish to go there. Putting Catlyn in her family's custody would be the simplest way for Robb to deal with his mother.
Jon's path seems to be clear based on what Quorin Halfhand wanted him to do. But I don't think it will be as simple as he thinks. I'm hoping that Mance is not blind enough to readily trust Jon. I'll write more about Jon, the North and Winterfell later.
Waldu's good looks. He's a mix that you will not have an accurate sense of unless you read the books as I urge you to
do. Jaime is brave, not courageous but neither strong nor weak. What makes him special lies in the book.
Interesting. My take on Jaime as a good general was based on the comments the Starks made upon his capture and Tywin's comments when he finds out. And of course Jaime's comment about being good at killing people, but not much else.
I would love to know what the books say, but I am adamant that I won't read them until the tv series is over. I actually began reading the first book after the end of season 2, but I stopped for two reasons. First, there were no surprises in the plot because I had seen the show. Second, there was so much information about characters and places that weren't in the show that it threatened to ruin the show for me. I can completely see why the book readers are constantly complaining about the show. There's no way to put all of the history that informs the decisions the characters make into a tv show. So I decided that I would rather enjoy the show without that knowledge, and I will read the books later so that I can fully understand their actions.
Interesting. On the GoT series and also the books it was noted that Jaime is brash and impulsive. In fact that trait went against him when he rushed out into Robb Stark's ambush. I more rational commander would resist that. I doubt very much that his father would have.
Waldu's good looks. He's a mix that you will not have an accurate sense of unless you read the books as I urge you to
do. Jaime is brave, not courageous but neither strong nor weak. What makes him special lies in the book.
Interesting. My take on Jaime as a good general was based on the comments the Starks made upon his capture and Tywin's comments when he finds out. And of course Jaime's comment about being good at killing people, but not much else.
I would love to know what the books say, but I am adamant that I won't read them until the tv series is over. I actually began reading the first book after the end of season 2, but I stopped for two reasons. First, there were no surprises in the plot because I had seen the show. Second, there was so much information about characters and places that weren't in the show that it threatened to ruin the show for me. I can completely see why the book readers are constantly complaining about the show. There's no way to put all of the history that informs the decisions the characters make into a tv show. So I decided that I would rather enjoy the show without that knowledge, and I will read the books later so that I can fully understand their actions.
The series may end years from now. It's not unusual for someone to begin reading a book in the mist of watching a
series, I have done this. As long as you differentiate the two. For me, I got to appreciate what I was viewing. Reading
allowed me to fill in all the gaps and questions. To read takes on vivid images that rarely gets matched on screen. The
Brash and impulsive? I suppose I can see that. He did after all throw a child from a window, stab his king in the back and try to kill Ned. And I assume he is the Lannister who sent Mr. "You're Not Supposed to be Here" after Bran. Perhaps I had hoped he had taken his father's lecture to heart and that his education had actually paid off.
Jaime is brilliant at killing people, he's a inspiring leader and somewhat of a prodigy when it comes to the knight. He was the youngest kingsguard ever. He's the type of person you want leading the van, but not the entire army. He is brash as been said before and impatient. I'm just going to say that there is a very clear reason why Tywin is staying in Kings Landing and it will become relevant as season 3 progresses. As for the coin, it doesn't work outside of Braavos, it's not meant to pay someone to kill someone or something like that, only that the words will cause a man in Braavos to point Arya in a certain direction. Ponder on what Jaqen said to her when he wanted her to come along and it will make sense.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
I'll give you a short run on the Battle of the Whispering Wood and how RObb managed to decimate Jaime's army.
Jaime smashes 5000 or so strong army of the River lords at the Golden Tooth, they retreat east to Riverrun. Now Riverrun is surounded by two rivers and they can open a sleus (dunno how you spell that) as defence which means any besieging army has to divide their camps in three. Robb attacked the main one with a small raiding party, Jaime instead of raising the alarm chased the raiders into the forest where Robb's entire army waited. They captured Jaime, rode into each of the three camps and entirely decimated the Lannister forces.
That strategy would never have happened if it was Tywin in command.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
I'll give you a short run on the Battle of the Whispering Wood and how RObb managed to decimate Jaime's army.
Jaime smashes 5000 or so strong army of the River lords at the Golden Tooth, they retreat east to Riverrun. Now Riverrun is surounded by two rivers and they can open a sleus (dunno how you spell that) as defence which means any besieging army has to divide their camps in three. Robb attacked the main one with a small raiding party, Jaime instead of raising the alarm chased the raiders into the forest where Robb's entire army waited. They captured Jaime, rode into each of the three camps and entirely decimated the Lannister forces.
That strategy would never have happened if it was Tywin in command.
There you go, not well thought through but brave. Still not a strategist nor courageous as some think.
As for the coin, it doesn't work outside of Braavos, it's not meant to pay someone to kill someone or something like that, only that the words will cause a man in Braavos to point Arya in a certain direction. Ponder on what Jaqen said to her when he wanted her to come along and it will make sense.
Interesting. My theory was that if Arya showed the coin to a Braavosi, Jaqen (or whoever he is at that moment) would come find her. Another theory I had is that maybe Jaqen would become the person who Arya gave the coin. But apparently not. I'll have to rewatch that scene.
Hahaha I know he's got powers, but he's not god. He's a faceless man, something that was explained way before this point in the books. They are a guild of master assasins that can change their appearance and are incredibly deadly. Apparently Doreah met one as she said something about a man changing his face to Viserys in the bathtub scene.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Oh, and thanks for the explanation of Jaime's capture, your grace. That does change my thinking about Jaime's wisdom. methinks he relies overly much on his physical prowess without appropriate consideration to the bigger picture. What a shame. I hope this season will see him grow more circumspect and less selfish...or not.
Hahaha I know he's got powers, but he's not god. He's a faceless man, something that was explained way before this point in the books. They are a guild of master assasins that can change their appearance and are incredibly deadly. Apparently Doreah met one as she said something about a man changing his face to Viserys in the bathtub scene.
I recall that scene, even though it didn't hit me until I watched season one again a couple of weeks agp. But I don't think we should mention faceless men consorting with whores in front of Mrs. H'ghar. I'll bet she has a temper!
Haha oh no she's an absolute angel, she won't let you know she's miffed at you, she'll just slit your throat in your sleep. I'll say this, Jaime is one of my favourite characters for a reason. If you have not seen the GOT rom-com trailer I highly recommend it. Where is everyone tonight?
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Haha oh no she's an absolute angel, she won't let you know she's miffed at you, she'll just slit your throat in your sleep. I'll say this, Jaime is one of my favourite characters for a reason. If you have not seen the GOT rom-com trailer I highly recommend it. Where is everyone tonight?
Yes, she is quite fair and learned as a lady of the realm. Right , where is everyone ? YvyB drinking Dornish or wine
No same here, though actually guy rules forbade me from disclaiming that /See Guy rules subsection b music/ a guy may only like one chic song per year but must never admit to it. It's 1:30am over here.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
No same here, though actually guy rules forbade me from disclaiming that /See Guy rules subsection b music/ a guy may only like one chic song per year but must never admit to it. It's 1:30am over here.
LOL. You must see the " songs in the key of awesome " for that Bruno Mars song " Grenade" ? It's hilarious.
The YouTube video of that parody is exactly what you're expressing.
Oh, and thanks for the explanation of Jaime's capture, your grace. That does change my thinking about Jaime's wisdom. methinks he relies overly much on his physical prowess without appropriate consideration to the bigger picture. What a shame. I hope this season will see him grow more circumspect and less selfish...or not.
HMMMMM.........READ THE BOOKS , and I GUARANTEE You'll Love it
His Grace also enjoys the Oprah, Opera, musicals poetry, studied Drama for five years during high school. So yeah his Grace has to be careful when surrounded by fellow men at arms.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
I think rugby and a dragon trump all of that, your grace. Kind of like a bodybuilder wearing a pink tie. Although I think you've mixed up this thread and the Confessions thread.
BaS, you must be a patient man. I was also not gonna read the books after season 1, yeah, I only lasted 2 weeks and then read ALL the remaining books and then went back and read book 1.
It's your choice of course, and we will keep this a place spoiler free for you.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
I love to hear impressions coming from non-readers, we should treasure the ones we've got. Too bad We Do Not Sow didn't continue posting his reviews on S2 over at WiC.net, I was really looking forward to those.
Black as Snow: Thank you! It is always eye-opening and refreshing to read the interpretations and predictions of a non-reader. It reminds me of how I felt reading the books for the first time, not knowing what would happen and then being stunned, or being sure I knew what would happen and being stunned, or trying to keep an open mind and still being stunned ....
I am already looking forward to reading your reactions to each new episode ... Is it March yet?
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Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
Black as Snow, it is so interesting to read your very insightful thoughts and guesses... There's precious few people who don't read the books and dare brave the spoiler muddled internet world, and it's wonderful to have you here. It helps us all relive the thrill we felt while getting to know the story for the first time, and I just want to thank you for sharing it with us.
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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”
So Winterfell...WTF happened? The show was not at all clear about who sacked Winterfell, but the damage was obviously extensive enough that the Stark boys needed to "abandon ship" instead of just regrouping. It's crazy for them to head north, but that appears to be their plan. Based on Tyrion and Jon's trek north in season 1, it appears that there are few, if any towns along the way. They certainly won't find Jon in season 3, but I'm sure we can expect hardships and and more unexplained events for them in the upcoming season. Thankfully, they have both brains and brawn along for the trip, at least for now. I'm afraid that either Hodor or Osha is going to get killed, or maybe the two brothers will be separated.
I think little Rickon will continue to devolve into a half-wild street urchin-type kid. I definitely got that impression of him when he was in the crypt with his dire wolf, and I think the lack of strong parental figures and the wilderness will strengthen that trend. So far Rickon has only been a peripheral figure in the series. If he is going to stay alive, I'm hoping we will see a little more character development this season.
I think poor Bran is in for a difficult and miserable trip north. I don't dare imagine anything good coming out of season 3 for him. I think we will finally see some enlightening conversation between Bran and Osha so that we can learn more about the boys' dreams and the meaning of the three-eyed crow. What's interesting to me about the dreams and the crow is that the two young Stark boys are experiencing these things, but the two older Stark boys aren't. Or at least, if Jon and Robb are having these dreams, it hasn't been revealed to us yet. I'm wondering whether age is a factor. Proximity to Winterfell could be related, but I doubt it has to do with geography. For some reason, magic has been reborn into their world, and this is one of its manifestations.
The little Stark boys could get very little screen time in season 3, since everywhere else seems to be going insane, but I hope they have at least a few decent scenes that explain what is going on with the Winterfell refugees.
Yeah Winterfell. Well you can assume one of two things happened. The Ironmen betrayed Theon and burned down the castle to cover their escape, or the Bastard Of Bolton burned down the castle to smoke out the remaining Ironmen. Maybe both. They boys were in the crypt so they are also unaware of what happened. It is odd that if the second scenario happened, why was there no one guarding the ruins? Or maybe something else happened and the entire army had to mobilize.
Do you have any guesses what Theons fate might be?
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
I think Theon's fate is intertwined with what happened at Winterfell. I originally thought the Iron Men handed Theon over to Lord Bolton's bastard and made a run for the sea. But that's pretty predicatble. I don't think the Iron Men escaped, based on the siege that was underway at the time. But if Lord Bolton's men sacked WInterfell, why would they honor the terms Robb set forth that would allow the Iron Men (except Theon) to leave? There is a temptation to think of Theon getting captured, the Iron Men taking him before Robb and blaming the sack of Winterfell on the Iron Men. That's awfully simplistic, as much as I would love to see Theon's head on a pike.
So the bottom line is, I think Theon is in the hands of the Bolton men, who will blame Theon for the sack of Winterfell, regardless of who actually did it. I don't think they will turn Theon over to Robb. I think they will take him back to wherever Bolton's keep is, and we will find out what that flayed man banner is all about.
All I'm going to say is that this Winterfell twist was probably one of my favourite moments in the book, and what ensued is one of the strongest storylines in the book. Personally, I'd venture to say the strongest, because of its ramifications and implications. You're very intuitive, Black as Snow, but I won't say anything else on the subject.
The whole thing at Winterfell was handled differently in the books, as you probably must have heard by now, and it'll be interesting for readers as well to how certain events will be translated on screen in S3. I think it's great to have reached a point in the show that has both readers and viewers wonder what will come next.
Well Black as Snow your on to a good start with your hunches. If can believe that Roose Bolton has actually sent
his son as suggested to Robb at the camp, there may be a bit of mischief to report or not, we'll have to tune in
and recreate the image we were left with at the end of season two. Hmm.... Wonder why they would take Theon?
Why was Winterfell burned and not occupied or looted ? What good was taking Theon the ward ?
Stop teasing Donal! I told you I completely geek out over GoT. Anyway, it's not a good idea to encourage a lady's lust for power...I might end up scheming to sit on the Iron Throne myself.
WildSeed, you're making my brain hurt! I don't have any reason to believe it was anyone other than Roose Bolton outside of Winterfell, even though it's certainly possible. It seemed to me that when the Iron Men knocked out Theon, they were probably going to trade him for their lives, as Robb had offered. The other possibility is that they knocked him out so that they could escape and take him back to Pyke with them. It also occurred to me that everything that Theon did might have been planned by his father and sister, who sent Theon's second in command to push him to prove his loyalty and go beyond the point of no return with the Starks. So it is conceivable that the forces outside were actually Yara's men. But I don't think that really makes sense, unless the Iron Men were in disguise so that Theon wouldn't recognize them.
Anyway, to answer your question, I think Theon has value as the technical heir to the Iron Islands and as a man Robb Stark wants captured. I think back to Tyrion's "don't tell the queen" scheme, where he told one of the three potential snitches that he wanted to marry the princess to Theon. It clearly was a plausible enough scenario that Tyrion's fakery was not obvious to Little Finger (I think...or Varys?). So Theon obviously still has some status as the Greyjoy heir, even if he is a ward. Maybe Theon's presumed value to keep the Greyjoys on their best behavior is part of his value, but I doubt it.
As for Winterfell, the whole thing doesn't make sense. Apparently there were either not enough men or it was not strategically important to occupy Winterfell. I don't have an answer, other than the people who did the deed had other objectives. We (non-readers) don't know whether or not Winterfell was looted. I assumed it was. If it's worth burning, why wouldn't you take everything of value that you can carry? My assumption was that whatever happened, there was enough damage to Winterfell and enough people were killed that it didn't make sense for Bran and Rickon to stay. Otherwise, why leave the relative safety of their home for the dangers that lie to the north? The other thing that strikes me as weird is the fact that Maester Luwin was left alive. Why not finish him? Maybe it was a plot device to set up the scene with Luwin and the boys, instead of something that should make sense.
Dany and Ser Jorah left season 2 in a pretty good situation. Dany has learned some valuable lessons and managed to escape from the trap set for her in Qarth. I think season 3 will open with Dany and her dragons on a boat. I don't think they'll sail to Westeros yet. She needs a safe haven while her dragons grow stronger. It looked like the majority of her followers were killed when her dragons were stolen, so she also needs to attract more followers. I am hoping for yet another exotic land with exotic people. Dany doesn't seem to have the patience and cunning she needs to plan a successful return to Westeros just yet. I would like to see Dany go back to the more nomadic lifestyle of season 1, rather than staying in a city all season, as in season 2.
The mysterious woman from Qarth must have some significance. My guess is that she belongs to some sort of organization or group that stands to benefit from her return to Westeros. I expect that we will see her affiliates in some form again this season.
I don't know that I have any other predictions for Dany. I hope she and Ser Jorah keep the status quo. His crush on her is sweet, but it would be a bit creepy for them to become an item. What will be interesting is when she learns of his betrayal. Just like Robb, she will learn that she can't truly trust anyone.
Well Black as Snow your on to a good start with your hunches. If can believe that Roose Bolton has actually sent
his son as suggested to Robb at the camp, there may be a bit of mischief to report or not, we'll have to tune in
and recreate the image we were left with at the end of season two. Hmm.... Wonder why they would take Theon?
Why was Winterfell burned and not occupied or looted ? What good was taking Theon the ward ?
Stop teasing Donal! I told you I completely geek out over GoT. Anyway, it's not a good idea to encourage a lady's lust for power...I might end up scheming to sit on the Iron Throne myself.
WildSeed, you're making my brain hurt! I don't have any reason to believe it was anyone other than Roose Bolton outside of Winterfell, even though it's certainly possible. It seemed to me that when the Iron Men knocked out Theon, they were probably going to trade him for their lives, as Robb had offered. The other possibility is that they knocked him out so that they could escape and take him back to Pyke with them. It also occurred to me that everything that Theon did might have been planned by his father and sister, who sent Theon's second in command to push him to prove his loyalty and go beyond the point of no return with the Starks. So it is conceivable that the forces outside were actually Yara's men. But I don't think that really makes sense, unless the Iron Men were in disguise so that Theon wouldn't recognize them.
Anyway, to answer your question, I think Theon has value as the technical heir to the Iron Islands and as a man Robb Stark wants captured. I think back to Tyrion's "don't tell the queen" scheme, where he told one of the three potential snitches that he wanted to marry the princess to Theon. It clearly was a plausible enough scenario that Tyrion's fakery was not obvious to Little Finger (I think...or Varys?). So Theon obviously still has some status as the Greyjoy heir, even if he is a ward. Maybe Theon's presumed value to keep the Greyjoys on their best behavior is part of his value, but I doubt it.
As for Winterfell, the whole thing doesn't make sense. Apparently there were either not enough men or it was not strategically important to occupy Winterfell. I don't have an answer, other than the people who did the deed had other objectives. We (non-readers) don't know whether or not Winterfell was looted. I assumed it was. If it's worth burning, why wouldn't you take everything of value that you can carry? My assumption was that whatever happened, there was enough damage to Winterfell and enough people were killed that it didn't make sense for Bran and Rickon to stay. Otherwise, why leave the relative safety of their home for the dangers that lie to the north? The other thing that strikes me as weird is the fact that Maester Luwin was left alive. Why not finish him? Maybe it was a plot device to set up the scene with Luwin and the boys, instead of something that should make sense.
I'll stick with my point. We were not given obvious info for the demise of Winterfell. Ser Bolton is on record for
suggesting his son for reining in Theon and saving Winterfell. Rose Bolton of course remained with Robb Stark
at the camp. I was echoing what many viewers have been asking " what exactly happened and why ?" " Did the
Iron Born take Theon or ransom him ?" Bran/ Osha and Rickon were going to emerge eventually in any case, fire
or not , they had to escape . In this case you have to wait for GoT S3 for additional information to fill in the gaps.
Speculating is either fun and/or maddening but it's okay to give up in the absence plausible reasons. Some give in
to satisfy curiosity by the way of seeking Spoilers. If you're fine with that you'll learn in part, just not the logic &
intent behind the action or scene.
In the books we filled in the gaps with the next book or chapter, so in a way we readers were frustrated as the
events unfolded too because we wanted to know why as much as you. One thing for certain GRRM illustrates
with much detail in the way that few authors do to capture your imagination and attention. You'll find that
a sought after quality when you finally read ASOIAF, GRRM has a way of grabbing your interest and not releasing
you until you're exhausted. We are excited that this hugely popular is airing, we get to see the events in action.
I think season 3 will open with Dany and her dragons on a boat. I don't think they'll sail to Westeros yet. She needs a safe haven while her dragons grow stronger. It looked like the majority of her followers were killed when her dragons were stolen, so she also needs to attract more followers. I am hoping for yet another exotic land with exotic people. Dany doesn't seem to have the patience and cunning she needs to plan a successful return to Westeros just yet. I would like to see Dany go back to the more nomadic lifestyle of season 1, rather than staying in a city all season, as in season 2.
Oh I do hope we'll all still be around in the coming years, if the show stays on air, it'll be fun to discuss Dany's decisions and their result then.
My lady, you have a great gift for analysis. I'll give you a hard one. What say you of our Dragonstone lot? What do you think happened with Davos after Blackwater, and what are those crazy kids Stannis & Melisandre up to?
It's two bad there aren't more non-readers here to share the speculation, but - as everybody already said - I really like reading your posts.
Macha, I'll have to think a little more about Stannis and Melisandre before I post any thoughts. Their next actions are hard to predict. So I'll get back to you.
-- Edited by Black as Snow on Sunday 26th of August 2012 05:25:11 PM
I'll bet she has a temper!
You're nice to humor me. I just hope we can attract some other non-readers, so that I don't have to speculate all by myself.
The show was not at all clear about who sacked Winterfell, but the damage was obviously extensive enough that the Stark boys needed to "abandon ship" instead of just regrouping. It's crazy for them to head north, but that appears to be their plan. Based on Tyrion and Jon's trek north in season 1, it appears that there are few, if any towns along the way. They certainly won't find Jon in season 3, but I'm sure we can expect hardships and and more unexplained events for them in the upcoming season. Thankfully, they have both brains and brawn along for the trip, at least for now. I'm afraid that either Hodor or Osha is going to get killed, or maybe the two brothers will be separated. 
