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Topic: Season 2 Revisited

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Tir Airgid
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Season 2 Revisited
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After watching season 1 we all had different expectations about what season 2 would be like. Now the season is over and we had some time to process it, it'd be interesting to have a place were we can revisit those expectations in the light of what we got, compare, and yes, praise and rant if we wish to.

Please tag all spoilers concerning events readers were expecting to have in Season 2 but seem to have been moved forward.



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Tir Airgid
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Special shout out to Black as Snow and all those of us who weren't readers at the time Season 1 finished airing (if they can remember)...

Where were you expecting the story to go? How do you feel about were it actually went?



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Lyanna Stark
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Season 2 went by a little too quickly for me.  I liked Season 1 in the fact that you got to know all the characters and the story blended a bit better.  Course I can do without the torture, but hey, I expected that.  Expect that there will be some in the future as well.  Jaqen was better than anticipated, got hosed on no bath scene.  Looking forward to S2 on dvd.



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MrsHghar
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Lyanna Stark wrote:

Season 2 went by a little too quickly for me.  I liked Season 1 in the fact that you got to know all the characters and the story blended a bit better.  Course I can do without the torture, but hey, I expected that.  Expect that there will be some in the future as well.  Jaqen was better than anticipated, got hosed on no bath scene.  Looking forward to S2 on dvd.

 A woman must agree that Jaqen was a wonderful surprise this season, and we had wished for the bath scene too. It seems a lot of things got condensed, and the HOTU was beautiful but missed a few important things...not the profecies (which can be introduced through dreams later) but there where no Undying IN the house but Pyat Pree. It wouldn't have cost that much to add a few wrinkly old wizards to that table scene, would it? Maybe so with the cgi issues, but still, there could have been some other wizards besides PP there. That was the only thing that really bothered me besides the whole Talisa thing, which I don't think will carry the same complexity of story in the long run that Jeyne would have. But that's probably the point, some things had to be condensed to fit a 10 episode season. Since we do not know the long game on that storyline, a woman looks forward to S3 to see where they go with Talisa and King Robb. Arya's bonus scenes with Tywin were also unexpected pleasures, and Maisie Williams held her own quite well with Charles Dance. No small feat.



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Macha
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Ok, let it be known (once again) that I was a TV viewer first and book reader second, so I tend to be more forgiving with the show. Also, not having waited for this adaptation for as long as other book readers, my expectations for the show were not that high. Disclaimer over.
I loved S2. Thinking back, "love" was probably my most-used word when commenting on S2 over at WiC. Couldn't help it, otherwise I wouldn't be here.
It wasn't without its faults, obviously. The pacing was uneven, and overall it felt terribly rushed. It definitely could've used the '2 seasons' treatment but alas! it was not meant to be.
There were several things I was anxious about, that could have been a hit or miss. The birth of the shadow baby comes to mind. I really couldn't picture it in my head, how were they going to handle it? I felt the result was amazing, it exceeded all my expectations and more.
Blackwater? I had no worries there. Ever since we heard they'd be bringing Neil Marshall on board for that, my mind was at ease. The wildfire explosion again exceeded my expectations, the sound effect alone was amazing.
Pyke! I loved Pyke ever since I read the second book, it was just so vivid in my mind and seeing it on screen took my breath away. Everything involving the design of the Iron islands and the costumes they used was incredible.
House of the Undying. A bit of a miss in my opinion, and I didn't even expect the dreams and prophecies to make it on screen, I was pretty sure they'd do their own version of it. Just felt that Pyat Pree's exit was a little anti-climatic. I never felt Dany was in any real danger, but maybe I felt that way because I already knew what was going to happen.
The attack on the Fist - liked it, but I also didn't remember that much from the books. I thought the wights marching looked a bit funny, but seeing that White Walker up close made up for it. Wow, just wow! *worship*
Also, I expected more from Robb's storyline, not as far as Talisa is concerned, mind you. But in this one's opinion, you cannot give Robb this napoleonic aura of the great military leader without giving him actual scenes of battle or if the budget doesn't allow it just some scenes where he would discuss his tactics with his bannermen. The war atmosphere was missing and somehow it felt that the season didn't really live up to it's tagline "War is coming", except for Blackwater.
But like I said, these are minor grievances, and overall for me S2 was better than the first, and I'm pretty sure that trend will continue with S3.


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Black as Snow
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I would sit at the edge of my seat from the moment the opening credits started, looking for new locations before the show even began. "Pyke?!? I don't know what's going to happen there, but it sure looks cool!" If not for the weekly geography lesson, I would've been lost!

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WildSeed
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Kudos to The direction and production staff for queuing viewers with updates with the Opening Credits
as Black as Snow mentioned, the detail was brilliant.

So far each season updated us to the mysteries within and could be seen with each episode. It may
be a laughing point , but that " Simpsons" GoT parody about the opening credits in Season 1 was
very informative too, giving the scope of the show. They even got the 3 eyed crow right :D

For most viewers though, Season One was chock full of new stuff that only connected by watching
the progression in Season Two.

It's uncanny that for many of us at this site the airing of the series came before reading the books.
I had only begun reading but discovered Ned's fate on television. I was heartbroken and stunned.
To have picked up how many birds flew in the sky over Arya and Yoren at the Sept of Baelor would
have been impossible or ludicrous to recall. My brain was not fully engaged at the moment of
grief.



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Black as Snow
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Tir Airgid wrote:

Where were you expecting the story to go? How do you feel about were it actually went?

Well, they killed Ned Stark in episode 9, and I refused to believe it until I saw his head lifted up early in episode 10.  Then they killed Drogo in episode 10.  I think I was shell-shocked more than anything.  This was a story that didn't follow any of the "rules" for tv shows and movies.  If Ned died, it was supposed to be in the process of saving the kingdom and restoring the rightful heir to the throne.  And Khal Drogo was supposed to cross the narrow sea with his Dothraki horde and create a threat that unites Westeros against a common foe.  Right?  Wrong.

So at the end of season 1, I had been run over by the fail train, and I honestly didn't know what to think.  Yet my thinking about the series was still naive.  At this point I've been bashed over the head by GRRM enough times that I'm more cynical, but at the end of season 1, the reality was just starting to dawn on me.  I also thought things would move more quickly on many fronts.  When I think back on season 2, Theon is the only character whose storyline was advanced particularly much in ten episodes. The biggest surprise to me was the number of new characters in season 2.  I wasn't following any casting news, and I hadn't read the books, so it never occurred to me that there would be so many new characters and plot lines.

The obvious person to root for was Robb Stark, who could avenge his father and kill Joffrey.  But this is a series that doesn't follow the rules, so I was almost afraid to hope for Robb, the newly-minted King in the North, to prevail.  But he had some success against the Lannister forces, that I honestly hoped for his success to continue.  It never occurred to me that he would end up breaking his oath to the Freys and marry Tulisa. 

Renly was a joke, as far as I was concerned.  His boyfriend told fim he would be a good king, so he made a play for the throne and then fled King's Landing when Ned refused to back him.  I thought that was the end of it.  Yes, Renly would still be around as a minor character, but it never occurred to me that he would take Loras' dream of King Renly seriously enough to declare himself king and raise an army.

Stannis basically didn't exist in my mind at the end of season 1.  He was the absentee heir to the throne, and I never gave him much thought until he was introduced in season 2.  I thought Gendry was a more likely contender for the throne (eventually), despite his lowborn mother.  After all, Ned's interest in him, and his reappearance in episode 10 pointed to him being a possibly important character in the next season.

I expected Jaime to be rescued or escape.  I certainly didn't expect him to sit around chained to a post for most of a season.  I didn't think he would be killed by Robb or his forces, but I did expect some action.  I thought perhaps he would charm the girl who brings his meals into betraying the Starks or something like that.  

I thought the Starks would get Sansa back.  Naive, I know.  I didn't know if it would be a prisoner swap, a daring rescue, or an escape with Tyrion or the Hound's help, but I never expected she would still be in King's Landing at the end of season 2.  I didn't care for Sansa at all in season 1, but thought she would wise up a little more than she has and find a willingness to act in her own self interest when the opportunity arose.

I never dreamt Theon would turn against Robb and Winterfell would get sacked.  I knew something crazy was going on with Bran and his crow dreams.  I really didn't know where that was going.  And frankly it's not particularly obvious now either.  I expected Catlyn Stark to return to Winterfell.  After all, wasn't she supposed to be the devoted mother?  Why not return home as quickly as possible?

Jon Snow appeared to have accepted his role as a member of the Night's Watch and they were heading north of the Wall.  I expected to see White Walkers and wights pretty early on in the season, and some idea of what "Winter" would entail as far as the supernatural and/or undead beings were concerned.  I didn't think the Night's Watch contingent would be so voluminous or include stewards such as Sam.  I was thinking more along the lines of a few companies of rangers.  I thought we would find out the fate of Benjen Stark in season 2.  I really expected much more action up north than we got.  I did expect to meet some wildlings, but Craster was entirely unexpected.  I thought we would see something more along the lines of tribes similar to the hill people Tyrion enlisted.

Danaerys had her dragons, which was pretty cool.  While I was certain her Khalasar would find civilization, I didn't expect Qarth and its colorful characters, who would spend all their time scheming to get their hands on her dragons.  It was unclear how much of her Khalasar remained at the end of season 1.  While it looked like many Dothraki left, I thought she still had a sizable group behind her.  I didn't expect the sheer desperation in the early episodes of season 2.  I assumed she would find allies, would get to safety and rebuild her followers.  I didn't think she would cross the narrow sea, but I thought she would have an alliance with some seafaring people soon.  I also thought the dragons would grow faster.  I also thought that romance between Dany and Ser Jorah was a real possibility. 

I thought Arya would get to her brother's camp and end up back in Winterfell.  I thought Gendry would end up with the Stark forces, and becoming part of Robb's inner circle.  I never dreamt of a character like Jaqen, and the sequence of events at Harrenhall. 

I knew Joffrey was a coward and an ass, but I didn't think he would be quite as awful as he has been.  I expected Cersei to be able to rein him in and turn him into a figurehead while she wielded the true power behind the throne.  I also didn't expect Joffrey to have a long reign, and thought he may well be dead by the end of season 2. 

I don't think I had a prediction for Cersei, but I thought she was more capable than she turned out to be.  She is as ruthless as I believed, but I thought she was much more intelligent and expected her to have an excellent mind for strategy.  I wouldn't have expected her to be so clueless in the face of the imminent battle of Blackwater or that she would completely crack under the pressure.  I thought she was the type of woman I now believe Margaery to be. 

As for Tyrion, no real surprises there, except perhaps for his relationship with Varys.  I assumed we would have a tense and unfriendly relationship between Tyrion and Cersei.  I assumed Shae would stick around, at least for a while, but that she would be found out and would disappear.  I didn't expect to see Tyrion chopping off any legs.

I think that's about all.  As you can see, I was in for some big surprises in season 2.  Hopefully, I'm not quite as naive with my predictions for season 3.



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Aegon the Conqueror
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Please post your season predictions here BAS. Would love to see the updated version. Actually your expectation of Joffrey is the same expectation Cersei had before he ruined that idea.

Oh your question on why Sam was there, it's explained further in the books, but there was no time to do it onscreen. Sam is one of very few stewards that came along, as you'll not Pyp was not here this season. He is actually steward to MAester Aemon who was to frail to come along. So Sam went in his place to mind the Ravens and send back messages. Maybe you'll get to see that in episode 1 next season.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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I feel the same as Macha when it comes to season 2, in that I loved it, even though it had some glaring mistakes. It's still the best damn thing on TV! My biggest problem with the story was the pacing, and in that aspect season 1 was better, I'm relieved ASOS will be split into two seasons and I sincerely hope they take their time to tell the story. I felt there was some good streamlining at points like having Lommy die immediately instead of surviving another chapter (thank you!) and making Bronn the Commander of the City Watch.
I'm not in book purist in that I view every change to be evil, for instance I loved the new Xaro Zohan Ducksauce instead of weepy and gay Xaro from the books. But the three biggest complaints that I had were Irri dying, Jon Snow and the tragedy of Quorin and my biggest headache, Robb the hormonal teenager as demonstrated in the Robb meme. I actually like Talisa and think she is much better than Jeyne Westerling, but again why make RObb look like a hormonal teenager instead of the honorable fool like his father. Oh and I love beautiful Ygritte too, how could anyone complain about such a sweet and endearing lady?
Blackwater blew me away and I sat gaping at the tv screen when Rains started playing (Best song ever!) on second viewing I was a bit dissapointed that we never got a wide shot of Stannis' army to show that he had thousands of men, something that the Borgias and Rome both did effectively. All you need is one shot!. But nonetheless awesome episode. Though IMO the best episode this season was Valar Morghullis, I was on the edge of my seat right through, hoping it would never end! The final sequence was amazing! Much better than season 1's. I'd read the books, but had forgotten about the undead attack on the fist.
An example of the series being better than the books was this final sequence. No one missed Clydas (cept maybe Linda) and as that third horn blast echoed the attack came rushing back to me. White Walker was seriously well done! As well as Sam's acting in that sequence.

All in all I cannot wait for season 3! Although Robb will forever be marred in my mind.

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Tir Airgid
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I shared many of your expectations at the end of season 1, Black. I never thought Stannis would matter, or that we'd get so many new characters, didn't even see Theon so had no expectations there, I thought the North's battles and struggles would take a far greater center stage, I expected Robb to besiege Kings Landing (how naïve of me was that?) and Gendry to be at least their blacksmith, Arya to end up in the wall, more of a mystery hunt "in search of Benjen and the wildings and white scary things" up north... And then I read the books. And my head exploded.



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Black as Snow
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Tir Airgid wrote:

I shared many of your expectations at the end of season 1, Black. I never thought Stannis would matter, or that we'd get so many new characters, didn't even see Theon so had no expectations there, I thought the North's battles and struggles would take a far greater center stage, I expected Robb to besiege Kings Landing (how naïve of me was that?) and Gendry to be at least their blacksmith, Arya to end up in the wall, more of a mystery hunt "in search of Benjen and the wildings and white scary things" up north... And then I read the books. And my head exploded.

There was no reason to expect that the focus wouldn't remain on the Starks, as it did in season 1.  I think my other big misconception about season 2 was probably pacing of the events of the season, just like yours, Tir. We are used to to and movies where plot lines wrap up quickly.  It's surprising how many characters were not that far from where they started in their overall storyline between the beginning and end of season 2.

I very much want to see what my big misconceptions are about what will happen in season 3.  And I am afraid to find out how much more twisted GRRM can possibly be.  I know I think I'm mentally and emotionally ready for anything at this point, but comments like Tir's prove that I know nothing.  Oh, and I love that smiley, Tir!



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Black as Snow
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

Please post your season predictions here BAS. Would love to see the updated version. Actually your expectation of Joffrey is the same expectation Cersei had before he ruined that idea.

Oh your question on why Sam was there, it's explained further in the books, but there was no time to do it onscreen. Sam is one of very few stewards that came along, as you'll not Pyp was not here this season. He is actually steward to MAester Aemon who was to frail to come along. So Sam went in his place to mind the Ravens and send back messages. Maybe you'll get to see that in episode 1 next season.

Your explanation makes much more sense, Aegon.  I was a little confused about why you would take someone who had no ability to survive a battle on this kind of mission.  Certainly not to gather firewood/dung! 

Do you mean you want me to post here as the season goes on, or you want me to add on to the predictions I made in the non-reader thread?  I'm happy to blab on about GoT anytime!



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Aegon the Conqueror
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You obviously had a little more time to digest and think about things. In light of what you learned from season 2, what do you think is going to happen in season 3.
But yes, I also think you should start your own topic once season 3 airs, much like the one on WIcnet where you post your reaction and expectations for the season.

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Tir Airgid
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News re. identity of Irri's killer: it is known.

kissedxfire:Doreah killed Irri. Source. 

Photo: Paul Schiraldi via wicnet.tumblr. Originally posted by KissedbyFire



-- Edited by Tir Airgid on Tuesday 2nd of October 2012 10:40:33 AM

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WildSeed
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

You obviously had a little more time to digest and think about things. In light of what you learned from season 2, what do you think is going to happen in season 3.
But yes, I also think you should start your own topic once season 3 airs, much like the one on WIcnet where you post your reaction and expectations for the season.

 Black as Snow is becoming a Viewer Expert in Residence.

 

WiC will begin posting short takes and photos soon ( if not already ), the new season is already taking shape.

 

I think Cary already began and Season Three Speculation Topic, it hidden in Books area.



-- Edited by WildSeed on Tuesday 2nd of October 2012 04:09:26 PM

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Macha
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Tir, what a surprise! Why oh why didn't we get that scene in the series?? Ha, people actually felt sorry for Doreah.  



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Tir Airgid
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I felt sorry for Doreah too! They should totally have left that scene. It would have made her execution feel more like justice and less arbitrary, and it would have provided a very climatic moment for two characters that would be not coming back. I get they didn't want to unveal the "mystery", but I think so long as Dany didn't know, it still was a mystery and people would be actually routing for her to get her comeuppance.

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Black as Snow
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Tir Airgid wrote:

News re. identity of Irri's killer: it is known.

kissedxfire:Doreah killed Irri. Source. 

 I knew Doreah and Irri disliked each other, but WOW!  Notice the dragon cages are already empty.  I wonder what the sequence of events surrounding Irri's death actually were supposed to be. 



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WildSeed
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Black as Snow wrote:
Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

Please post your season predictions here BAS. Would love to see the updated version. Actually your expectation of Joffrey is the same expectation Cersei had before he ruined that idea.

Oh your question on why Sam was there, it's explained further in the books, but there was no time to do it onscreen. Sam is one of very few stewards that came along, as you'll not Pyp was not here this season. He is actually steward to MAester Aemon who was to frail to come along. So Sam went in his place to mind the Ravens and send back messages. Maybe you'll get to see that in episode 1 next season.

Your explanation makes much more sense, Aegon.  I was a little confused about why you would take someone who had no ability to survive a battle on this kind of mission.  Certainly not to gather firewood/dung! 

Do you mean you want me to post here as the season goes on, or you want me to add on to the predictions I made in the non-reader thread?  I'm happy to blab on about GoT anytime!

 Yeah, this thread was created after the " Non Reader __General Discussion ". When people migrated over here, I 

got in on the action too. I'm not sure where it is now.



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Macha
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We will have episode threads for each episode, next season. AND a space for non-reader discussion.
There IS already a non-reader speculation topic in the TV section for S3.

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Tir Airgid
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Note: I only added the picture here because, in lack of a news thread that's on the making I am told, since it was season 2 related I thought it'd somehow fit and that it was something too small to open a thread about. If it later needs to be moved, I'm perfectly ok with it. Regarding the new season... I can't wait for the new pics!!!

So back on topic, how do ye feel about the way the Iron Islanders have been portrayed so far, and the amount of time given to Dragonstone?

There's another thread for Season 3 speculation.

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Black as Snow
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The amount of time given to Dragonstone has been negligible. In my mind, as a viewer, Dragonstone consists of a room with a map/table, a window, a fire and a bunch of chairs. I realize when I think about it that the bonfires where the seven burned was probably Dragonstone, as well as the beach where Ser Davos and Salladhor meet. And maybe Stannis and Renly parlayed on Dragonstone. But to me, Dragonstone is a just room with a table that doubles as a bed.

I don't know how they are portrayed in the books for comparison purposes, but I dislike the Iron Islanders as they are portrayed in the series. I have no respect for a people that take instead of earning. And none of their actions have given me reason to believe them to be redeemable human beings with a value system that is worthy of anything but contempt. I imagine they are supposed to be comparable to the vikings, but in my mind, they are not worthy of the comparison. You want a pretty bauble? Go catch and sell some fish, like everyone else. Their banner should be a leech, not a squid.

Is that a little strongly worded? Meh. Maybe I'll edit it later.



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WildSeed
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Yeah, they are a bit like Pirates , aren't they? I call them Repo-men ( mentioned in the Commercial Threads ),
about the Greyjoys. The Krakens make up their own laws , and codes of disobedience. Theon was so young,
when he was taken as ward, and suffered instant rebuke when he returned home. Not exactly the welcome
he was expecting. I think you give leeches a bad rap tho, they have contributed to to medicine , over the
years, whereas the Greyjoys are moochers. Squid is too tasty to suffer their name too, maybe dipshits
would work better. Gotta hand it to the actor that portrayed Balon Greyjoy though, he played the part well.



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Rygar
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Parlay is Pirate Code for wanting to meet right?

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WildSeed
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Rygar wrote:

Parlay is Pirate Code for wanting to meet right?

 and parlez back at cha, englais ! awful speech, sorrry.  

Se voir chez toi .



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Tir Airgid
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Black as Snow wrote:

But to me, Dragonstone is a just room with a table that doubles as a bed.

This is golden! Thank you BaS.

A room where we meet the stalion who mounts the world...



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DonalNoyesArm
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The season 2 DVD/Blu-Ray better have deleted scenes and gag reel.
As much as I loved the season 1 set, some features were lacking (especially since they waited a whole year to release the set).

If they show deleted scenes, I hope they also include this one....

Spoiler

tumblr_m7a9nsZ4IX1r1rt2do1_500.jpg



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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
If they show deleted scenes, I hope they also include this one...

tumblr_m7a9nsZ4IX1r1rt2do1_500.jpg

 Oh wow!  Is this from the Blackwater episode?  I need to compare costumes, but no time right now.  I guess they wanted more time for action.  no  It's not like we would've complained if the episode was longer. 

It looks like a really intense scene!  And maybe the scene with the Hound in Sansa's bedchamber would make more sense if they had included this.  Poor Hound...he can't even make it to the friendzone.



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Macha
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I don't think we'll get deleted scenes for S2. I recently read an interview with Bryan Cogman promoting Inside HBO's GoT, and he said this (the book) is as close as fans will ever get to "view" deleted scenes. He went on talking about how they use everything. Hmmm. hmm



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DonalNoyesArm
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Macha wrote:

 He went on talking about how they use everything. Hmmm. hmm

 Well, obviously not as the pictures show....oh well...



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YvyB
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Ep 10! I 'm skimming through for screen shots and I'd forgotten how heart wrenching most of the season finale was ! I'm sobbing ... so much pain ... Gah! and that's before season 3 with all that ..... wahhhhh!!!

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Valar Morghullis is my favourite episode of the entire series.

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TormundsWoman
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OK I'm done rewatching the whole Season 2 and I still think it has some of the weakest eps at the end. For example Blackwater is still the worst ep 9 out of the whole 4 seasons ep 9's. As far as I am concerned Baleor, The Rains of Castamere and The Watchers on the Wall kick the panties of Blackwater.

Random odd thought about ep 9:

In Baleor (s1 ep9): Varys talks to Ned in Baleor mentioning his balls being cut off and Stannis being the real threat to KL and the Iron Throne in their discussion in the black cells.

In Blackwater (s2 ep9): Varys tells Tyrion that he never shared with the Imp the story of how he got his balls cut off and that the worst threat to KL is Stannis because he is under Melisandre and the Red God influence.

That's weird, right?

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Atreyu
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Hands down, season two was my favorite of any season of any show anywhere.

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TormundsWoman
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Of course it would be. You put Clash second on your top 5 too.bleh 

Anyway very crucial moment for dislike for Valar Morghulis: The House of the Undying. I really forgot why I hated that scene. But no worries. I remembered it now! I liked the book scene too much I suppose. Plus it's obvious they cut according to what's most important of that book scene. Which brings me to a huge question that will go into speculation.

And I just read the whole of Basi's expectations vs what actually happened in S2! Oh boy :teehee

I also thought that romance between Dany and Ser Jorah was a real possibility.

Ser Friendzone!

I thought Arya would get to her brother's camp and end up back in Winterfell.  I thought Gendry would end up with the Stark forces, and becoming part of Robb's inner circle.  I never dreamt of a character like Jaqen, and the sequence of events at Harrenhall.

I thought at least Gendry would get some action in Dragonstone... Pfft, the Red Pristess is such a tease.

 


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Black as Snow
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I had no idea how twisted and unpredictable GRRM is. So much for storybook endings.

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Dolan
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Bas! we need another one of your expectations posts, its interesting to compare those with what happens in the show and the books.

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Black as Snow
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Oh, I get it. You want more reasons to laugh at me. teehee I'll see what I can come up with.

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Dolan
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no way! you're usually right in the money, but is nice to see where it goes different ways.

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TormundsWoman
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Basi your stuff is quite good! I wonder if I would think the same as you if I hadn't read the books.
For example the Gendry getting it on with Mel-- I totally thought it was going to happen. Because in the books Gendry hadn't crossed paths with Mel so technically anything was possible! I was Unsullied I and I speculated wrong teehee

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