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Topic: Season 4 Plot Points Speculation *Book Spoilers*

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Macha
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Season 4 Plot Points Speculation *Book Spoilers*
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There is no way in seven hells the PW is happening in S3.
I don't remember how exactly was Joffrey's killer revealed in the books. The whole hairnet thing might be a bit hard to follow on the show, so I wouldn't be surprised if they change it. But I think it would be cool to have the trial without knowing who actually did it.
I'm not sure having Sansa as an active participant is a wise choice, simply because having her kill someone in cold blood is out of character at this point - especially since she's already married to Tyrion, hence she does benefit from a bit of protection against Joffrey.



-- Edited by Macha on Wednesday 3rd of April 2013 12:26:24 PM

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DonalNoyesArm
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So at the Purple wedding, you think they will make it more obvious who killed Joff? In the book it was very vague in and of itself.

I have a hunch they might make Sansa an active participant. Why not? She has been screwed over by Joff the most, and it might be quite sathisfying seeing her do something, instead of being the passive character she is in the books.



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Cary Storm
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You still think the Purple wedding is happening in the 4th season? You poor, misguided man.

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DonalNoyesArm
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If it happens this season, it would really surprise me. How would they even do it without the Martells being there as guests?

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Tir Airgid
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Cary Storm wrote:

You still think the Purple wedding is happening in the 4th season? You poor, misguided man.

 i do. i think it'll happen next season, from the clues we've been getting so far.



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Lyanna Stark
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Cary Storm wrote:

You still think the Purple wedding is happening in the 4th season? You poor, misguided man.

 I am with you on this, Lord Storm. S3.  I have been wrong before, but it would give House Stark justice early. I want the Martells, absolutely, can't wait to see the Viper, but looks like they are keeping the Martells for S4, cast wise.



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Anguissette1979
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

So at the Purple wedding, you think they will make it more obvious who killed Joff? In the book it was very vague in and of itself.

 Based on how they played the lemoncakes scene I think so. I was trying to keep a straight face during some of Margaery's "would you like to see me kill something" remarks. They almost might be telegraphing it TOO much...



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DonalNoyesArm
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Granted it would be a nice surprise to have the PW this season, but I really, really doubt it. But stranger things have happened. We shall see.

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Tir Airgid
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so Wic just confirmed Strong Belwas is out, and then this "Martin revealed he will be writing the second episode of season 4 and that he has already turned in his script."

Purple wedding, anyone?



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Macha
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Tir Airgid wrote:

Purple wedding, anyone?

Are you by any chance implying that the PW is NOT in this season??

Hey Cary, come here, I wanna show you something...!

 

PS: Yes, I think that's the case, Tir. It'd be such a fantastic way to open the new season too. I do wonder if the critics who would see it in advance will be able to keep it a secret.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Awwww yeah! Someone is gotta write PW using the song Purple Rain from Prince! Haha

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Anguissette1979
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Tir Airgid wrote:

"Martin revealed he will be writing the second episode of season 4 and that he has already turned in his script."

Purple wedding, anyone?

 I never thought that the Purple Wedding would make it into Season 3. There's already LOADS of stuff going on. I agree with everyone who said that for GRRM to be writing something this early in the season means it's something big. I think it has to be that early for everything to play out in King's Landing.

joff...

tyrion...

tywin...



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Mags Giantsbabe
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If the Purple Wedding happens this season, fine. I feel indifferent to when it happens. I'm more concerned that *hopefully* Jon will then get a more central story in S4. (That's what we were hoping for for season 2 and then s3, ad infintum)Because at the rate that his story is currently going, it seems as if David and Dan don't care that a wildling horde might be invading Westeros soon. They don't seem to care about this aspect. And if Jon gets no screentime, it will give the impression that he doesn't deserve to become LC. For the Night's Watch!

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Anguissette1979
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My mum (non-book reader) was commenting today that it feels like Jongritte sprang up out of nowhere (double entendre totally intended). I suppose there has been progression each episode but he hasn't been in enough to have a smooth introduction.

I will be interested to see how his arc is handled in S4. It's been difficult to pinpoint a "featured storyline" this season.

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DonalNoyesArm
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So it seems they are casting Styr, Magnar of Thenn. I personally barely remember him from the books as he didn't stick out to me. I rather they spend a bit more time with Mance as he was very rushed this season.
However he could be a surprise, just like Thoros, who I didn't care for in the book, but on the Tv show came to life by the actor portraying him.

We shall see.

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Asha Karina
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Same for me , Styr wasn't a great stuff to me... as every chick i'm waiting for ZE sexy snaky badass.... RHÂAAAAAA !

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Al Swearengen
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I reckon the Purple Wedding will happen about episode 4 or 5. You've got to give the first couple episodes time to introduce Dorne and the rest of House Tyrell IMO.

The battle at the Wall should be a no brainer for episode 9. My guess is the duel will also happen during this episode.

I hope and pray episode 1 ends with the debut of Coldhands.

As for Lady Stoneheart one would think she'll be the final scene of season 4 but I have my doubts.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Thursday 13th of June 2013 11:31:02 AM

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Macha
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I agree with all of that, Al, maybe except Oberyn's duel. I remember an interview with D&D saying that there will be a battle in S4 even larger in scale than Blackwater - so maybe we get lucky and the battle at the Wall will get the same treatment, with a whole episode dedicated to it. In that case, I'd place the duel in episode 8, with Tyrion's little killing spree and departure in Ep.10.

Which episode was GRRM writing for S4 again? I'd say chances are he's writing the PW.

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Any thoughts what will happen with Jon at the wall till the wildlings attack?

I think my namesake will sadly not come into play, but I understand it would make more sense for the writers to make Aliser Thorne take the lead of castle black while Mormont was gone, and Janos Slynt should be there by now and it would make sense to make him his lackey. A lot of good conflict could come from there and Jon could overcome this adversity and prove himself as a leader once the wildlings attack.

Alliser was a hardass but didn't see him as evil, and has proven to be tough so he could be a good leader and even die a death flighting a giant in the tunnel and that nod to my Don would be good enough for me! biggrin



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Macha
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

Alliser was a hardass but didn't see him as evil, and has proven to be tough so he could be a good leader and even die a death flighting a giant in the tunnel and that nod to my Don would be good enough for me! biggrin

Yes, yes bring him back precious, and then we'll break his filthy little neck, yes.... yippie I loved his little speech in S1, and he's the obvious choice so far.

 

Oh I just realized - if Bran's arc next season is meeting Coldhands and travelling with him to Caveland, then somewhere out there there is a casting call for creepy-ass-tree Brynden Rivers. If they'd end S4 with him, my life would be complete.



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Rygar
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I definitely think the PW will NOT happen this season. It will be S4. It will coincide with the introduction of Strong Belwas and the return of Conan Stevens as the Mountain.

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Asha Karina
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You made the point as usual, french in the bathroom ! (should i precise that i listened to "there once a farmer had a dog" with my daughter this morning and then i read your nonsensique answer to a post, it's frightening...)
I must add that if every Dorne thread on WIC is as lame as the one i came to read, i think all the Dornishs must die to spare us  from this kind of stuffs... (and reading that the book was such a "salad bowl" whereas even in Essos there are only white dudes is a pain in my "lovely" ass)



-- Edited by Asha Karina on Monday 17th of June 2013 06:39:21 AM

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Al Swearengen
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Yeah I could see Jon's time before battle be having to deal with Janos Slynt and Thorne doubting his allegiance. I hope we get a couple good scenes with Jon and Maester Aemon, I loved their scene in season 1.

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DonalNoyesArm
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So I had a thought about Gendry, in the book, we lose track of Gendry till he rescues Brienne from biter at the end of book 4.
I think by having Gendry go back to Kings landing he might actually replace Pod as Brienne's companion somehow.
If not, what will happen to him? He will certainly not go back to TBWB after they betrayed him.

Hmmm....the books have the Meereenese Knot, what shall we call the plot complications of the Tv show?



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Rygar
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Furio is too manly, we need someone more fem.



-- Edited by Rygar on Monday 24th of June 2013 05:48:20 PM

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Al Swearengen
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Gendry's future is a headsctratcher, perhaps it would have been wiser to have held off on Davos releasing him. I also don't really like the fact that we already kinda know that Stannis is going to save the day in S4, it would have been better if Aemon sent out the ravens but we didn't see if any of the Houses read the letter.

I hope Pod still goes off with Brienne and I think he will.

BTW I was wondering would anyone be bothered if D & D decided to ship Bronn off with Tyrion at the end of the season ? I was annoyed when George decided to split them up in the book and I wouldn't mind this deviation. Just imagine the great scenes we could get with Bronn and Jorah come season 5/6.

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Macha
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Hmm I would actually prefer it if they made Bronn and Tyrion's "break-up" all the more poignant in S4. I think they started on this direction in S3 with Bronn demanding more money, and I wish they'd make him testify against Tyrion at his trial. IMO, this would make it even more clear that Tyrion believes he has no one he can rely on in Westeros anymore, and would add greatly to his post-departure depressive state - which I actually hated in the books, but nevermind.



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Rygar
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I agree with Al. Any deviation from the book cqn only improve upon the shitstorm that is Tyrions lamenting sojourn thru Essos.

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Al Swearengen wrote:

Gendry's future is a headsctratcher, perhaps it would have been wiser to have held off on Davos releasing him. I also don't really like the fact that we already kinda know that Stannis is going to save the day in S4, it would have been better if Aemon sent out the ravens but we didn't see if any of the Houses read the letter.

I hope Pod still goes off with Brienne and I think he will.

BTW I was wondering would anyone be bothered if D & D decided to ship Bronn off with Tyrion at the end of the season ? I was annoyed when George decided to split them up in the book and I wouldn't mind this deviation. Just imagine the great scenes we could get with Bronn and Jorah come season 5/6.

 

Gendry... he will end up meeting up and being part of the Brienne and Pod excursion.

Could Bronn take Ser Ilyn's place with Jaime?



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Rygar
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Why would we replace Ilyn Payne? The fact that he cant talk makes perfect sense to have him practice with Jaime. Unless they cut out that whole aspect.

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Rygar
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Oh and welcome. Lol

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Rygar wrote:

Why would we replace Ilyn Payne? The fact that he cant talk makes perfect sense to have him practice with Jaime. Unless they cut out that whole aspect.

 Because the actor has cancer. I don't see them recasting as he had a very distinct look.



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Al Swearengen
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Rygar wrote:

Why would we replace Ilyn Payne? The fact that he cant talk makes perfect sense to have him practice with Jaime. Unless they cut out that whole aspect.

 Erm didn't the actor who played pass away recently ?

 

BTW Welcome Shadow Stalker and that's actually a really cool idea.



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Rygar
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So he cant be recast?

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Al Swearengen
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Rygar wrote:

So he cant be recast?

 They could but we all saw how great an idea recasting The Mountain was.



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Macha
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Because Wilko Johnson, the actor playing Ilyn Payne was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I suppose they could re-cast the part, but I doubt they'll go through all that trouble, since his character doesn't seem to be that important in the great scheme of things.
Hmm Bronn and Jaime, although very cool, could be a bit too much - those scenes are supposed to be humiliating, but also offer Jaime some peace, and I don't really see it working with Bronn. Maybe Brienne, since they're both in KL with not that much to do for the moment?
Gendry is a wildcard at this point, no idea what's in store for him. So far, they have changed things but still ended pretty much in the same point, so maybe he'll make it back to the Riverlands in time for Brienne's meeting with UnCat? But I don't see him re-joining the Brotherhood either, it wouldn't make any sense.

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Rygar
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II dont know what all the hate for Ian Whyte is about. The guy is a hulking mass of testostoerone. He doesnt look like some juice head you see in Venice Beach like Conan did. And his voice BOOMED when he spoke to Tywin. I cant wait to see Ian in action.

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Wilco Johnson had a VERY disctinct look. And the always could recast... but as mentioned that didn't go very well for Gregor... Changing it to Bronn allows them to keep an actor they already have and established to be used/combined with another part. Bronn could always end up becoming one of the Kettleblacks as well.

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Rygar
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I know he has cancer but I always thought he had a big part to play in Jaimes arc. So a recast isnt too far fetched. I dont see Bron going from one Lannister to another.

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Or they could just completely cut out Jaime's retraining... depends on if that actually becomes important in later books.



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Al Swearengen
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Rygar wrote:

II dont know what all the hate for Ian Whyte is about. The guy is a hulking mass of testostoerone. He doesnt look like some juice head you see in Venice Beach like Conan did. And his voice BOOMED when he spoke to Tywin. I cant wait to see Ian in action.

 Ian Whyte just doesn't give off an intimidating presence like Conan did, he's way too skinny for The Mountain, I could believe that Conan could kill men with just his bare hands.

 

I really really hope Conan is brought back for S4 or the duel is going to fall really flat.



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Rygar
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As BaS said before, Wilko looked like he was perturbed about something, not menancing. No disrespect to the guy, but a distinguished look was not needed there. Payne should be able to look thru your soul not look as though he couldnt remember what he had for breakfast.

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Rygar
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Conan looked like a steroid about to pop. It was comicalm. I am sure Ian has read all the hate mail and will win over fans this season. The guy is great.

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I have my doubts about how they'll do that battle... but it could be done well with either actor I think. (Hopefully)... though I am in the Conan being better camp.

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Macha
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Personally, I can see only one reason for Ilyn Payne's character to exist, both in the books and the show - and that only works if Ilyn Payne knows if Jaime & Cersei are Aerys's children. But this too seems weak, since he can't talk. I don't remember, was he in S2 at all? I believe it's very likely they will just drop his character altogether. It's too bad, because I loved that man's face.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Al Swearengen wrote:
Rygar wrote:

So he cant be recast?

 They could but we all saw how great an idea recasting The Mountain was.

 Yup, I love Mr Whyte but man did he look goofy in the Mountain Armor. It's a real shame that Conan couldnt commit. I saw him in that silly "Bible" tv show playing Goliath, so the dude needs work.



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Rygar
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JJust wait. Ian Whyte is gonna kill it.

I cant wait for the Hound vs Bronn scene. That shit needs resolution.

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Macha
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New Mountain is classy as shit. We don't need other thugs. We have the Blackfish.
Nasty hobitssessssss can stay in Hobbitland.



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ShadowStalker
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Switching gears... I have a pet theory that they are going to cut Meereen. (Repetitve taking another city)

Since they already essentially used the Meereen conquest to take over Yunkai.

Thought being that S4 will actually push pretty far into Dance for Dany's story. Perhaps ending with her deciding to marry Hizdar.

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DonalNoyesArm
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Paul Giamatti as The Mountain....he plays Rhino in Spiderman 2 anyways, so it could work!

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