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Topic: Season 4 Final Thoughts and Observations *mark spoilers*

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DonalNoyesArm
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Season 4 Final Thoughts and Observations *mark spoilers*
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Season 4 has come and gone, lets talk about your final thoughts of this season and how it compares to the others. Please use spoiler brackets for the unsullied.



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DonalNoyesArm
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My current season rankings are:

Season 1: 9.5
Season 2: 7.5
Season 3: 8
Season 4: 8.5

This season moved at a very confident pace for me, the show going off-book and even delving in unpublished storylines proved to me that they will do anything to make their adaptation work and will not bother to be slavish to canon to please the current minority ( but vocal) book fans. So while the storylines were very scattered ( which has more to do with the source material than anything), the time they *did* spend with characters was very solid.

Plusses:

Very busy season at Kings Landing, so many players and events. Joff's death, the trial, the viper vs mountain...I already miss you Oberyn.

Excellent season for Jon Snow, he has really grown from a follower to a true leader, episode 9 was amaziballs.

Dany got to rule, and learned the hard way that it is not all sunshine and rainbows. While no epicness from season 3, it was quite good. Ser Jorah's banning was just heartbreaking. Plus how ironic is that the breaker of chains had to chain up her dragons in the end.

Very good season for Sansa and Littlefinger, loved how she has grown and has learned from her creepy caretaker.

Quite similar to Arya learning from the Hound, she is finally off to her own quest in Braavos.

Bran and co finally reached a solid destination and their detour at Crasters keep was a wonderful show-only plot that I quite enjoyed.
While admittedly anemic, I found it worked better than last season.

Minus:
The only real part that did not work for me was the Asha/Yara storyline, the way she completely caved when Ramsay threathened her with some pups, was ridiculous and ludicrous. But this would be my only real gripe this season.

I am going into season 5 with some trepidation, now we venture in the weaker/more convoluted books. But the TV show has instilled confidence in me that they will streamline things for TV....so here we go.

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Rygar
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S1. 9.5
S2. 8.5
S3 8
S4. 9.5

will add more later.  Too tired now. 



-- Edited by Rygar on Monday 16th of June 2014 11:20:00 PM

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I can't rank the seasons yet. I need time to mull over season 4 some more, but it was definitely better than seasons 2 and 3. There were only a couple of episodes that felt like filler, and only a couple of plot lines and characters that didn't work for me. In just ten episodes, so many characters finally came into their own, and plot lines wrapped up that will allow next season to focus on new areas and new directions. It's the most fulfilling end to a season yet. For once, I'm not dreading anything about next season. There are no cliffhangers that will keep me guessing till April. I'm more curious about how things will play out than anything. And frankly I'm grateful for the reprieve this off season.

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Al Swearengen
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Overall I thought Season 4 was a mixed bag. Most of the pivotal book moments were hit out of the park but a lot of the deviations were extremely sloppy and left me scratching my head.

My faith in D & D has been rapidly declining, I don't know if they're just burned out or if the success is going to their head. The quality moments of season 1 are long forgotten now

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DonalNoyesArm
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Al, name deviations that sucked ( other than Asha, we all know that sucked )
and name deviations that you liked.

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sid
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I also feel very much like this season was a mixed bag.  I don't think the Craster's Keep subplot resonated very well with me, not because of the deviation but because it lacked the gravitas against the awesome Joffrey whodunit as well as Arya & the Hound and the other plot lines.  It's hard to describe...I feel the lack of cohesion a bit for the first time this season, however that may be due to the fact that S3 and S4 were both derived from the same book and were a bit more drawn out than  S1/S2.  We have amazing actors who play the roles given to them well.   The struggle of the show will always be twofold:  one being the difficulty of telling a story equally with unequal levels of character source content, and two being the juggling act of making it all timed properly and relevant to the viewer (see extra-long Ygritte pyre scene vs. rushed Jamie & Tyrion escape scene).

I however am not a rabid purist and absolutely love being able to see my favorite parts of the book play out on the screen.  Although some favorite parts are left out, I am already counting the days until Season 5.  There isn't much truly like Game of Thrones on TV these days.

A fond Season 4 farewell to:

tywin Tywin Lannister (Charles Dance you fucking RULE)
joff Joffrey Baratheon
oberyn Oberyn Martell
grenn Grenn
pyp Pyp
jojen Jojen Reed
locke Locke
ygritte Ygritte
shae Shae

Lady Lysa Arryn
Karl
Rast
Styr, the Magnar of Thenn
Ser Dontos Hollard
Tansy
Mag the Mighty
Rorge
Biter
Polliver
The men on both sides of the battle of Castle Black
The tired Ironborn at Moat Cailin
and many more...


Spoiler


VALAR MORGHULIS



-- Edited by sid on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 02:10:12 AM

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I thought this season had a lot better pacing and editing than the previous seasons. They managed to cover all the many storylines whilst maintaining the feel of one story arc in a much more effective manner. I can't remember too many drawn out episodes with little happening.

The surviving characters have a more mature feel about them, not just because some of them are reaching adulthood, but because they have enough screentime and convoluted history within the tv series to give them that added depth in the viewer's mind. We haven't had to cope with as many additional new characters as in previous seasons so that has helped a bit.

All in all a top effort. Interesting that the world that is not yet fully developed in the books but that is glimpsed at times in the tv series (the baby snatchingandtransforming walkers scene for example) feels visually disconnected, and frankly a bit cheap and nasty looking, compared to the rest. The mega weirwood tree looks out of place (looks like it comes out of a Sin City movie) and the white walkers still look a bit artificial, and their "king" type guy was a paler version of darth maul. They need to work on all of that stylistically...

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Al Swearengen
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

Al, name deviations that sucked ( other than Asha, we all know that sucked )
and name deviations that you liked.

Didn't like

Grey Worm and Missendei's romance.

Arya and The Hound killing Rorg and Biter.

Hotpie giving Brienne and Pod information about Arya (not a terrible scene but just fan service)

Brienne vs. The Hound (to be fair my problems were more with the direction than the idea)

Sansa revealing her name to the Vale.

No Marillion.

Jaime raping Cersei. Jaime desecrating the King's Guard tower/room.

Shae trying to stab Tyrion.

Loras still not a King's Guard.

Gilly in Mole's Town (I thought it made sense but the execution was poor)

No Jorah stealing a kiss from Dany.

Spoiler

Liked

Jon cremating Ygritte

Stannis/Davos visiting the Iron Bank

Bran being captured by Karl (it was tolerable)

The Night's King (fine with it as long as it hasn't ruined TWOW)

Skeleton warriors (I am in the minority but it reminded me of Jason and The Argonauts)

Grenn and Pyp dying during the battle of the wall (hard to swallow but they needed some emotional impact)

Oberyn talking with Varys.

That's all I can remember at the moment, I plan to rewatch the entire season again this week.



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Rygar
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Yeah I disliked the Jaime rape scene In The book too.

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Al Swearengen
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So I finished my rewatch this weekend and I still feel the same. It's a solid season but the baffling deviations held it back from becoming the best. It's not a good sign when I am forced to fast forward through some scenes (Yara, Cersei blackmailing Tywin, Jaime raping Cersei.)

Shae reaching for that knife is a real wtf moment, all that hard work fleshing out the character seems like a waste of time now. I know she's a whore but Sibel had earned the right to a couple lines.

Each time I watch Rorge and Biter dispatched by Arya and the Hound I get more pissed off.

Spoiler

S5 could actually be really interesting if they stick to the books but I fear D & D's egos will get the better of them, god help us all.



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:32:30 PM

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DonalNoyesArm
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Al Swearengen wrote:
Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Go ahead, I'll wait. bear



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:32:54 PM

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jentario
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Season 4:
As a TV season: 9.5
As an adaption: 8.5

Why? Well a few things held it back from being a perfect season on an objective level IMO- that being the over excessive rape in the first half of the season, the fireballs and the end of the Yara scene which was probably the sloppiest writing on the show so far (though fantastic acting saved it). The Rorge/Biter scene took second place as worst-made scene of the season. That said, and this is the first time I can say this about GoT, this season had a fantastic pace. It wasn't lacking in action or plot development or in small, quiet character scenes. Most of the big scenes hit the mark, the music is perfect, the CGI and effects are amazing, the sets and locations are beautiful and the actors are just the best hands down. What more could you want from a TV season?

As an adaption, this season posed the biggest amount of controversies since season 2. Overall, it stuck to the major beats of all the storylines, but I still had issues with a number of things:

Spoiler
, the Craster's business which felt completely pointless in the end especially with Locke thrown in the mix (another Stark near-miss, really? and sending Locke halfway across the world only to snap his neck and be done with it?). The Yara thing demeaned her and her Ironborn- I know this scene was cut down due to budgetary reasons but that doesn't excuse the awkward outcome. Fireballs were unnecessary and stupid even with out taking into account how cheap the CGI looked in the final cut, and the Three Eyed Raven could have looked cooler. Tyrion's motivation in going to Tywin's room seems way off- a pragmatist like him would prefer saving his life over what? Confronting his dad? Did he even plan on killing him at that point? In the books, at this point, Tyrion didn't give a fig about his life and all he wanted was revenge, which made sense. They did a good job with Dany and King's Landing though I found the trial by combat- excluding the horrific ending- a bit underwhelming (the scene was much better in the books in my opinion) and then there was the Sept scene which could have been done better if the director knew what he was doing. I loved the Theon scenes, the Arya-Hound scenes, the Brienne-Pod scenes, the scenes at the Wall, everything Sansa (damn was that a good change, well done D&D- though the moon door scene was hindered since they split the Jon Arryn reveal out of it), Stannis and the White Walker surprise. The source material made this season the easiest to make the best season yet, though even with that D&D managed to make some questionable deviations (and some damn good ones- Jaime's deal to Tywin at the trial for instance).

Overall- it's still my favorite season, but not as much as I hoped it would be given the strength of ASOS.

Season 3:
As a TV season: 8.5
As an adaption: 9

Season 2:
As a TV season: 9.5
As an adaption: 8 or even less!

Season 1:
As a TV season: 9
As an adaption: 10



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:34:03 PM

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Al Swearengen
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Spoiler

Go ahead, I'll wait. bear

Spoiler



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:34:24 PM

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DonalNoyesArm
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Al Swearengen wrote:

 

Spoiler

WHY DO YOU PERSIST MR AL?! WHY WHY?!

 



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:34:37 PM

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TormundsWoman
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Hah!

Spoiler



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Sunday 29th of June 2014 08:29:31 PM



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:34:58 PM

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Al Swearengen
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

 

Spoiler

WHY DO YOU PERSIST MR AL?! WHY WHY?!

 

 Because Don I am the one! and I know Kung Fu



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:35:12 PM

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The Kindly Man
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jentario    I can't find much to argue with in your summary of the season, it aligns with my own views quite well.

This was actually the first season I have seen on the original broadcast dates (online streaming) rather than being a year behind and watching it in a binge session, so my major irritation was ad breaks really ( very intrusive on Sky Atlantic, especially on episode 2  which they ruined with long and ill timed breaks - thankfully they cut to down to one per episode soon after, I guess people complained).   That, plus watching on a small laptop screen instead of large screen with decent sound made it quite difficult to assess the episodes compared to watching a seamless run over a few nights and I've already forgotten a lot of detail from the season. So I need a re-watch a couple of epis at a time and no interruptions...

Somehow, knowing the "big moments" from the books makes them always feel a bit of an anticlimax so it's the smaller things which I have forgotten from the books or the invented/augmented scenes which stand out more. 

Definite highlights for me were Tyrion's trial and the adventures of The Hound & Arya.  Much as I liked some of the comedy in absurdity which was invented for The Hound and Arya I still prefer the "softer" Arya scenes in season 3 where you see her vulnerability, but they did a very good job of showing how those layers have been stripped away this season to just leave her as pragmatic and emotionless. Really her story is a tragic one rather than a celebration of bad-assery.

They didn't quite sell Tyrion's last scenes as well as the book managed (and what happened to Varys, master of disguise?).  Yara's abortive rescue and Rorge and Biter's rather pathetic demise both felt like they could and should have been done better if they had to be done that way at all.  I've never really gotten into Dany's story in the books and the TV show still not doing enough to change my views on that. Same with Sam and Gilly.

Big shout out to Rory McCann who stepped up this season to contest the actor's MVP with Charles Dance and Peter Dinklage - and Alfie Allen who I think is really underestimated.  Among the female leads very encouraging to see Sophie Turner being given more than an extended victim's role and she's able to show more range now. Love Maisie of course, and Diana Rigg shone during her brief stint.  

And a fond farewell to the posh Ginger Minge, she can wear my cock around her neck anytime she wants to taco.

Favourite season so far? Probably yes although I rate all the seasons quite closely as they all offer something memorable. 

 



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Al Swearengen
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I still don't understand why they made Littlefinger to look like a fool at the Vale. Never in a million years would he be caught with his pants down like that. Changing Sansa fine I get but Littlefinger is far too clever to rely on sheer luck to get him out of a bad spot.

This is not a spoiler!



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Monday 30th of June 2014 01:47:33 PM

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The Kindly Man
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Al Swearengen wrote:

I still don't understand why they made Littlefinger to look like a fool at the Vale. Never in a million years would he be caught with his pants down like that. Changing Sansa fine I get but Littlefinger is far too clever to rely on sheer luck to get him out of a bad spot.

 

It was always going to be a bit iffy by changing it (book spoiler)

Spoiler
.



-- Edited by The Kindly Man on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:34:25 PM



-- Edited by The Kindly Man on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:40:19 PM

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Macha
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Al Swearengen wrote:
Spoiler

 

Spoiler
confuse



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 30th of June 2014 12:37:08 PM

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Macha
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And I thought this thread was supposed to be spoiler tagged.

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Rygar
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jen, what is the difference between the "TV season" and "adaptation"? Aren't they the same?

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Al Swearengen
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Macha wrote:

And I thought this thread was supposed to be spoiler tagged.

And I would use them for spoilers but my comment wasn't full of any spoilers.



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Lyanna Stark
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Rygar wrote:

jen, what is the difference between the "TV season" and "adaptation"? Aren't they the same?

 Not sure



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jentario
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Rygar wrote:

jen, what is the difference between the "TV season" and "adaptation"? Aren't they the same?

 I try to separate my dissatisfaction with a few changes fr the books (as in, "it could have been better!") from a purer rating for the season. As an adaption, season 4 had some disappointments, but I feel like if I was a non-reader it would have been a 9.5 just because of how well it's done most of the time and how good the story is (regardless of what isn't included or what's changed a bit).



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Rygar
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Ah gotcha. Thanks. Nice analysis.

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