Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Michael Slovis.
Trailer:
Spoiler
Synopsis:
Spoiler
Arya arrives in Braavos. Pod and Brienne run into trouble on the road. Cersei fears for her daughter’s safety in Dorne as Ellaria Sand seeks revenge for Oberyn’s death. Stannis tempts Jon. An adviser tempts Dany.
I guess you could say this episode was the second part of the premiere, catching up with the rest of the folks.
Best part for me was the stuff in Meereen, Dany is deep in the Meereenese clusterfuck. Even when she does things by the books makes enemies and pisses folks off. I like that the show shows that ruling is a real pain in the ass.
I kinda wish we spent more time with Mossador, the young free slave representative, he was really good, and like that he was gone.
I think many of the freed slaves, him included, worshipped Dany not as a person as a savior and made them blind.
I love the direction Jaime is going, fook da books! MOAR BRONN, MOAR Fun!
The election was nice and speedy, and Sam stepping up and speaking for Jon was wonderful...loved that sheeit.
and JAQUEN FUCKING H'GHAR!!!!! Awww yisss
Sorry I am just rattling, but good ep!
-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Sunday 19th of April 2015 10:14:41 PM
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Worse episode than the last One. Motherfuckers need to up their game or this shit ain't gonna fly. Not much positive here. Enjoyed Cersei and Jaime. Doran was good as well. Nice to see Jaqen, but I have a feeling I'm gonna hate Arya this season. Sansa too. Her sassy brassy poon is possibility me off.
-- Edited by Rygar on Sunday 19th of April 2015 10:19:03 PM
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
The Dorne scene was a bit odd, well acted, but so short it felt like it maybe was lifted from another episode. Doran is very good tho, I love Siddig and I hope they have more stuff for him.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water. Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.
Now lemme see what I can remember. Quite a few highlights for me:
- it was nice to see Jaqen again, even tho I sorta expected it, it was still a surprise. Arya bores me tho, let's hope Braavos manages to bring some life into her story.
- Shireen and her reading lessons, with a side of Ostrich Stark.
- Doran, what a cool-headed muthafuka. Loved Siddig, and what a fantastic scenery.
On the other hand, not too convinced with Ellaria, but I think that was the director's fault, the scene felt too short for the intensity he was looking for.
- Jon's election, Sam's speech and Thorne's intervention. How I love these two, and even Jon is starting to grow on me really fast. His acting when Stannis makes him the offer was very, very good.
- Sansa/LF + Brienne/Pod = LOVE. Like I said in the other thread, suddenly Sansa's storyline is the one I'm most interested in this season. I just hope I'm not wrong, because from what I'm seeing, this new Sansa and the events they have in story for her could be either a big hit or a colossal miss. But geesh, I'm there for the ride!
- Kevan fucking Lannister, a man after my own heart.
Meereen was interesting, Jaime and Bronn was just ok.
Whuts Brienne gonna do? What is Littlefinger gonna do with Sansa?
Ok I can finally say this now because we've almost caught up with the books and besides, this is a major change from what happens there: I never thought, not for one second, Brienne would have a chance to meet up with Stannis and avenge Renly. So as far as the books went, I had nothing to worry.
BUT, if LF is taking Sansa up North, and Stannis is planning on launching a campaign against the Boltons....SHIT. They could actually meet. And I can't choose between Brienne and Stannis.
I suppose the show will expand on his motivations, but what I'd like to know is if he supports her because that was his plan all along, to bring back the Targaryens - with a makeover, of course - or if he decided he's willing to risk everything betting on Danaerys after he heard she keeps conquering and freeing the poor etcetera. Or a bit of both?
I like Varys as a character, and I do empathize with his thinking a lot, actually. And he has a nice way of justifying it, I'll give him that. But in the end, it still feels like political bullshit. It's just insane that someone that obviously desires peace and stability is planning on securing what's basically a foreign invasion on a country already torn by civil war. Hmm...on second thought, that's not insane at all, that's how the world works even today.
I donot understand Varys obsession with having a good and just ruler. He seems to revel in Disorder. What's the point of a Master of Whispers if there is nothing to whisper about?
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
About Varys, that's the thing ideology, makes it really hard to check your own contradictions, everything is hand waived in favor of the "good motivations"you have. Varys didn't became a Master of Whispers cause he "liked it" but because it would put him in a extremely privileged position to achieve his goal of undermining Robert's reign and getting Dany on the throne.
Joffrey Cersei Walder Frey Meryn Trant Tywin Lannister The Red Woman Beric Dondarrion Thoros of Myr Ilyn Payne The Mountain The Hound
This season: Cersei Walder Frey The Mountain Meryn Trant
.........................
Well Joff's already dead, I think that's well known news by now. She assumes (as do we) that The Hound is dead too. With Tywin - that's more tricky, unless she heard about him on her way to Braavos, but it's not a stretch. The Mountain, that's not so likely. As for Ilyn Payne, he is out of the show, so I think they just don't want to mention him again. Most casual viewers probably forgot about him already. I don't see an explanation for Melisandre, unless Arya realized it was pretty stupid to wish for her death just because she took Gendry away. He could be alive and well. I do wonder if and when we'll see him again.
Rewatched. I think my favorite part was spending 10 mins on whether or not the harpy should face trial and then denying the slave the same courtesy by outright execution. Why didnt Jelly Doughnut Selmy intervene then? Unless its because he admitted guilt, but we cant assume that after spending so much time on fairness. It's this type of inconsistency that chaps my ass.
Also, I don't know what you all saw, but Sansa definitely has a chip on her shoulder. She's not confident. She is almost condescending with everything she says or asks. Given her situation it doesn't make sense, (she's out of KL, Joff dead, no longer w Tyrion, her Aunt who tried to kill her is no longer a threat), youd think she would be happy, unless she is understanding the game and is playing it like Omar. What if when she told Bri that "she should leave" dismissively, she really meant "you should go because LF is a fucking psycho who would push you out the moon door in a jealous rage because you probably saw my mom naked while you were traveling as her sworn sword." Oh boy. Black Swansa comin'!
-- Edited by Rygar on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 08:48:36 AM
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
This was a decent episode. I was a little disappointed that we didn't get a bit more action and a little less filler. The costumes and sets were perfection. I love HBO's attention to detail and the locations they find to bring Westeros and Easteros to life.
I liked Arya's arrival in Braavos. The show did a wonderful job of bringing it to life. And I really liked Arya removing the pigeon's head. And JAQEN! But the ruse with Jaqen was stupid. Like sid, I was disturbed that Arya only recited four names. D&D seem to have cut the list down to something manageable, but I resent that they did. I like Arya's poise when confronted by the boys, but I felt that they spent too much time on Arya overall without accomplishing much.
Dany's storyline is good. She's turned out to be a poor mhysa to both her dragons and her people. She has failed to give either one the structure they need to succeed. She expects both to understand what she expects from them without guidance. I guess that sounds paternalistic when talking about people, but she needs to explain her definition of justice, and that she is trying to put the rule of law in place and treat everyone equally under the eyes of the law. And Rygar is right...killing the freed slave is contradictory after all the fuss over holding a trial for the free man. It will be interesting to see whether Dany learns from her mistakes and how much she can do to correct them.
Tyrion and Varys...what a waste of time. And the implication that Tyrion doesn't know the geography of Essos is just silly. The entire purpose of the scene seemed to be to introduce Cersei examining a dwarf head.
Sansa needs to lose that necklace. It's so ugly, it's distracting. I'm wondering whether she's acting so distrustful and aloof for LF's benefit. It could be a ploy to lull him into believing he is the only one she trusts and creating a team dynamic rather than a less equal situation. At least that's what I'm hoping. I'm much more interested in who LF is marrying. I can't think of anyone except Sansa. But who would know he has Sansa and give him permission to marry her? Stannis? Surely not. So I'm racking my brain for an answer. Has he made a deal with the Greyjoys? Yara in return for helping them against the Boltons?
And Dorne! Dorne is gorgeous! I didn't like the change in Elaria. I liked her so much last season that I'm disappointed. I do like the king (?) of Dorne. He has Oberyn's sensibilities, which I was really impressed with last season. I'm interested to meet his sons, and I can't wait for the sparks to fly when Jamie arrives. And I love that he's heading down there.
Jon's loving life. I guess Lord Commander is a pretty good consolation prize for not being able to realize all your childhood dreams. Personally, I think he should have taken Stannis up on his offer. I think he could do more good leading the Northerners than the Night's Watch. Let's see if Jon has good enough ninja moves to avoid Mel's ravenous minge. And Mel had better stay far away from sweet old Aemon.
Oh, and the Small Council scene. I thought it was really wooden and stilted. Whoever directed screwed up what could have been a dramatic and comedic scene. I did like Kevan challenging Cersei's power grab. I wish he hadn't gone sulking off to Casterly Rock. I would've looked forward to more exchanges between them and some devious machinations. Bummer.
I didn't like the horse chase scene, so I won't comment except to say that Brienne's valerian steel sword shattering the LF's soldier's sword was fantastic. Such a nice touch.
I think by Westerosi standards, that slave was given a trial. They have no concept of jury trials in Westeros. The slave was given the chance to defend himself before a judge, in this case Dany. It's consistent with the trials we've seen before (Tyrion's, Jon's).
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"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life" - Terry Pratchett
Thats why I said that the reason was probably because he professed his guilt. Still the Avg viewer wouldn't know what Westerosi Law is, and I try to separate from the books when I watch. In fact, what Dany should have done was advise the slave that he could demand a trial of combat, because I am sure he wouldnt know Westerosi Law either. So there is still inconsistency. On one hand, Selmy wants her to be prepared for ruling Westeros like a Westerosi, and on the other she does not provide the slave with all of his options for a trial. He should have had counsel for his "rights" and been informed of the options before him.
The bigger point is they spent time trying to correct her inefficiency as a leader yet at the end they show that she hasn't changed at all and we're still back to where we were before. that is boring! we already know how terrible of a leader she is. we get further proof from Varys seaside conversation with Tyrion. Varys knows she has the tools and "the right " family name, but that she also needs competent advisors to guide her decision making. Continually showing us how bad she is is a bloated waste.
-- Edited by Rygar on Wednesday 22nd of April 2015 09:38:10 AM
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
I thought about the "trial by combat" also, but that is a Westerosi custom attributed to the Seven. Maybe that custom doesnt excist in Essos, I forgot what deity they worship there.
Dany means well, but this is a typical example of gaining too much power too quickly. Her dragons were a blessing and a curse, since they are so powerful and priceless, yet now they are practically out of her control.
Her current state of power is an illusion, her Unsullied are not perfect and they alone can not protect her.
I have a nagging thought that she should've gone for broke and gone directly to Westeros, but that ship has sailed now.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Why would Mossador be given a trail? He admitted guilt immediately.
If he isn't entitled to a trial, shouldn't Dany at least have explained to the audience that Mossador admitted to killing a man being held for trial? To walk out there, say a few words about justice, and have someone's head lobbed off isn't sufficient if she's trying to change a society and not start a riot. She's the epitome of good intentions gone terribly awry.
Poor Dany is a walking disaster, Tyrion will have his work cut out for him if he ever reaches her.
Then again, can't be as bad as when he was advising during Joffrey's reign.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
A trial by combat is to determine whether someone is guilty or not, I don't think it's within someone's rights to demand a trial if they've already plead guilty to a crime.
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"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life" - Terry Pratchett
In fact, what Dany should have done was advise the slave that he could demand a trial of combat, because I am sure he wouldnt know Westerosi Law either. So there is still inconsistency.
I was responding to this specifically, should have made that clear. My point was that trial of combat was irrelevant in this situation, and therefore she had no reason to bring it up.
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"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life" - Terry Pratchett
Just read your edit. We never actually saw what happened in between the murder and him being brought before Dany, but I just assumed that Mossador immediately admitted to killing the Harpy, being so sure that what he did would be accepted by Dany. I suppose if he was just arrested and didn't come forward and confess then it would be right for him to be given a list of his rights. But I don't see how it matters, either way he was always just going to admit guilt anyway, would it really have made much difference?
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"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life" - Terry Pratchett
What I meant is that if she's going to start using a Westerosi justice system, her subjects should be aware of the system before she starts dishing out judgment. And the fact that she didn't enlighten them once again shows how inadequate a leader she is....which has been going on for two seasons now. It's boring and I felt like the whole Mereen plot in this episode was a waste of time.
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
Jon's loving life. I guess Lord Commander is a pretty good consolation prize for not being able to realize all your childhood dreams. Personally, I think he should have taken Stannis up on his offer. I think he could do more good leading the Northerners than the Night's Watch. Let's see if Jon has good enough ninja moves to avoid Mel's ravenous minge. And Mel had better stay far away from sweet old Aemon.
I also thought he should have taken Stannis' offer! And Mel is very forward, is she not?!
I think the inconsistency is entirely the point, Ry. She *thinks* she is doing the right thing, but blowing it. Like freeing the slaves and other things, yet she angers them by ignoring their traditions ( the fighting pits, tearing their deity off the pyramids).
She is kinda flailing around, as she basically was a traumatized, introverted child, given massive power and following.
You could *almost* argue that she a "semi-Joffrey", too much power too soon and no checks along the way. While she *tries* to do what she thinks is right, her best judgement are failing her.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Boo-ing is so yesterday. I agree, hissing was unique! I keep reading this thread and wanting to comment on something Basi said, but I remember she's Unsullied! But I soooo would have said something. She has such interesting take on some things.
I really liked the episode (it was pretty eventful, so much better than the premiere). Will touch on it later.
I just wanted to say that I disagree with Rygar and BaS on the slave thing being a contradiction to Dany's decision with the Harpy.
The Son of the Harpy had a Harpy mask, and his from the Unsullied. That's about everything they knew for sure he did. Does a man that supports the Sons of the Harpy automatically deserve an execution? No. if he actively took up arms, absolutely. And that's why he deserved a trial. Either way, he'do end up in jail or executed (depending on what he actually did). That's fair.
On the other hand, the slave dude went against Dany's order and killed the guy before his trial. He also admitted he was guilty. There really is no need for a trial when it's that obvious. You could even call that scene between him and Dany a trial (a small and quick one, sure, but that's only because the slave just admitted everything).
I think that Dany did the right thing overall. Problem is, Meereen (and the whole Slaver's Bay, really) isn't ready for that type of ruler. She is changing way too much way too fast and trying to force what she believes is justice on a society that disagrees with her and has been set in its ways for hundreds of years before she came along and conquerred it. Basically, she's trying to be the Queen of Westeros, but she ain't in Westeros. It just won't work for her.
What I meant is that if she's going to start using a Westerosi justice system, her subjects should be aware of the system before she starts dishing out judgment. And the fact that she didn't enlighten them once again shows how inadequate a leader she is....which has been going on for two seasons now. It's boring and I felt like the whole Mereen plot in this episode was a waste of time.
I think the general idea is that her subjects do know her justice system. It would just have been a huge waste of screentime to show a scene where she explains it to them. And having her off Mossador right after explaining this new system would have been just as bad as the Mad King. I think that somewhere between her scene with Barry Doughnut and the Harpy murder, she got the info out there about the trial- and how the whole thing works. Yes, they definitely could have (and maybe should have) explained it in a line or two, but having her resite the new rules and punishing someone by them in the same scene is just tyrannical.
It's either that, or to assume that Dany held that whole show without ever explaining why. Which is illogical.
On a different note, did anyone else notice that Cersei knew what was in the "Dornish Bento box"? That means she opened it and then closed it up so Jaime could dramatically open it again, That's so Cersei!
Also she was wrong/ or lying when she said the necklace has "only two in the world". Tyrion had one made for Ros ( that is how she got misidentified as his personal whore), and Joff gave Sansa the same type of necklace when he apologized for his bad behaviour.
So is she just wrong? Or did she hang the necklace herself to guilt-trip Jaime into leaving so she could perch over the small council?
hmmmmmmm!
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
That's interesting Don, because I was thinking that whole scene makes little sense even before what you said. Because... Who the fuck sent the threat? Definitely not Doran. In general, it doesn't seem like something any of the Dornish would do. The only slight possibilities would be Ellaria and the still unintroduced Sand Snakes which Ellaria mentions are on her side. But if she was already actively threatening the Lannisters, I think her conversation with Doran would be very different. She seemed to actually be out of the loop of Doran's intentions, and she wouldn't send the box before she made sure he didn't plan to act.
I think you're on to something, Don. Cersei's motivation would be: a) to get her daughter back, after seeing the witch'a prophecies start coming true she probavly wants her two remaining children close. b) to get Jaime out of King's Landing, both for her spite for him for setting Tyrion free and so she can assume control of King's Landing without his opposition (which she already begins to do in episode 2, by getting all her "sycophants" (as Kevan calls them) or "Lindas" on the small council.
PS- BaS, if you were wondering, none of this Jaime in Dorne stuff was in the books.
-- Edited by jentario on Friday 24th of April 2015 12:44:32 AM
Hey yeah! The Dornish are usually people of action, they don't send threats. And the only thing Elaria wanted to send Cersei was "one finger at a time". Unless one of the Sand Snakes sent it behind someones back. Again, hmmmmm.
I think it would be hilarious if Jaime got to Dorne and saw Myrcella still wearing her necklace, and Doran/Elaria saying "what threat"? Lol that would be kinda clever actually.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
In a perfect world Brienne kills Stannis then dies from an overdose of too much testosterone in her vagina.
-- Edited by Rygar on Monday 20th of April 2015 09:50:13 AM
, Ry
With regard to Jon Snow and the whole Winterfell offer, my thoughts are that he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he stays, he's Commander of the Night's Watch. If he goes, the North is not going to trust him. The other Northern families (even though Rob meant for him to take over) will see him as an "Oathbreaker" or "Turncoat" and he has not defense against that. Besides, there always has to be a Stark on the Wall. Come home,
-- Edited by Lyanna Stark on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:18:26 AM
-- Edited by Lyanna Stark on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:19:03 AM
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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water. Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.
I just wanted to say that I disagree with Rygar and BaS on the slave thing being a contradiction to Dany's decision with the Harpy
I think that Dany did the right thing overall. Problem is, Meereen (and the whole Slaver's Bay, really) isn't ready for that type of ruler. She is changing way too much way too fast and trying to force what she believes is justice on a society that disagrees with her and has been set in its ways for hundreds of years before she came along and conquerred it. Basically, she's trying to be the Queen of Westeros, but she ain't in Westeros. It just won't work for her.
An interesting point, Jent. And you're right, the situations are very different. She should have mentioned that he confessed, and the sentence for murder is death. The scene would have made a lot more sense. I just wish the scene was better written, I guess. Her actions seem arbitrary without a bit more explanation. At the same time, I don't want the show to spend too much time on Dany.
And I completely agree about her trying to foist totally foreign values on a society that is not ready for that type of change. (Just look at the US' lack of success trying to do the same.) It takes time and brute force to make such a big change. We'll see if Stannis has any more luck reining in the wildlings.
I like the Cersei-Dorne theory! If memory serves me, the Lannister necklaces shown before on the show were different from the necklace the snake was wearing. So it could be that what she's saying about the necklace is correct. But I love the idea that the threat is a ploy to get rid of Jamie. Or better yet, to get Jamie to retrieve Myrcella and stop the marriage to a Dornishman.
I just wanted to say that I disagree with Rygar and BaS on the slave thing being a contradiction to Dany's decision with the Harpy
I think that Dany did the right thing overall. Problem is, Meereen (and the whole Slaver's Bay, really) isn't ready for that type of ruler. She is changing way too much way too fast and trying to force what she believes is justice on a society that disagrees with her and has been set in its ways for hundreds of years before she came along and conquerred it. Basically, she's trying to be the Queen of Westeros, but she ain't in Westeros. It just won't work for her.
An interesting point, Jent. And you're right, the situations are very different. She should have mentioned that he confessed, and the sentence for murder is death. The scene would have made a lot more sense. I just wish the scene was better written, I guess. Her actions seem arbitrary without a bit more explanation. At the same time, I don't want the show to spend too much time on Dany.
That was my point all along. Jesus. No one understands. And it does contradict.
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
MOAR BRONN, MOAR Fun!
I can't believe it!!!!! 
And Mel had better stay far away from sweet old Aemon. 
Cosca, Westerosi Attorney At Law! 
, Ry 
