I wonder how that book will be adapted to the show? Many readers find this one the least interesting book of the series, as the influx of new characters, wild goose chases and ommision of characters halted the great momentum achieved in book 3 ( my personaly favorite).
Since the events of "Feast" happen at the same time as "Dance" it would seem logical to adapt chapters from both books for season 5 of the series.
Any thoughts?
-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Monday 20th of August 2012 11:30:05 AM
-- Edited by Macha on Tuesday 2nd of October 2012 01:10:42 AM
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
You know, I'm currently on a full re-read of the series and I'm really enjoying AFfC a lot more than I did initially - and even then I really liked it, though of course I felt a bit disappointed just like everyone else. For a TV adaptation, AFfC and ADwD will do just fine, the material is extremely rich, plus it'll be a great time for the show to catch up on the all the history/dreams and prophecies that were left behind up until this point.
Maybe I'm just biased, because I'm speaking as a TV viewer first and book reader second - I started reading them just as the first season started and never had to wait for ADwD that long, but I strongly feel that book readers tend to judge the last two books not by themselves, but mainly by the expectations set by the first three. And it's only natural to view things in this light, as I writer you have to keep the rhythm the reader was used to in the first place, and GRRM has definitely strayed from that. However, I believe the adaptation will be able to level this change of pace a lot better, even though an important problem still remains: will the casual viewer still be interested in the story and its characters after seeing that after 5+ seasons in which the world is still expanding...*insert example of an eagerly awaited event that still hasn't happened*? I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but IMO if the writing remains strong, we need not worry.
Coming back to the initial question, I too believe the only logical decision is treating AFfC and ADwD as a whole and combining them, though I have no idea where the seasons should end - will have to keep re-reading because the timeline is a bit blurry in my mind just now.
Really curious about how Braavos will look like though, first time I read AFfC I was so hungry for the story I never even realised that Braavos is a dead ringer for Venice.
PS: just checking, should we use spoiler tags on this thread too?
I am the same, I never even heard of "Game Of Thrones" till a friend told me to check out the Tv show. Then after season 1 blew me away I devoured the other 4 books in a single sitting ( I don't think I ever read so many pages consecutively in my life).
And I agree, the sting of book 4 was dulled by having book 5 right there waiting for me. Also concur that book 4 is not quite as bad, I love the Cercei and Jaime chapters, Brienne is great as a character ( tho her wild goose chase is not), I personally would not mind if the Tv writers changed things up for her that season as she is sure to become a fan favorite.
I have a surprisingly good memory for things and I tend to knit-pick, ( ESP since I re-read Clash before season 2), I will not re-read book 3 before, since some fuzzy memorization will help my case of show enjoyment.
No need for spoiler tags, the forum heading already says spoilers will be present. So we should be ok.
-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Saturday 18th of August 2012 08:18:00 AM
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
I think they'll deffinitely abandon Martins geographic split of the stories, and instead do their best fo find a logical stopping point about halfway through each book to end a season on. Part of the reason so many people disliked Dance was that they had to wait 6 years just to read about some of their favourite characters, and suspending half the main cast for a whole year isn't really feasable in TV land.
You know, I'm currently on a full re-read of the series and I'm really enjoying AFfC a lot more than I did initially - and even then I really liked it, though of course I felt a bit disappointed just like everyone else. For a TV adaptation, AFfC and ADwD will do just fine, the material is extremely rich, plus it'll be a great time for the show to catch up on the all the history/dreams and prophecies that were left behind up until this point.
Maybe I'm just biased, because I'm speaking as a TV viewer first and book reader second - I started reading them just as the first season started and never had to wait for ADwD that long, but I strongly feel that book readers tend to judge the last two books not by themselves, but mainly by the expectations set by the first three. And it's only natural to view things in this light, as I writer you have to keep the rhythm the reader was used to in the first place, and GRRM has definitely strayed from that. However, I believe the adaptation will be able to level this change of pace a lot better, even though an important problem still remains: will the casual viewer still be interested in the story and its characters after seeing that after 5+ seasons in which the world is still expanding...*insert example of an eagerly awaited event that still hasn't happened*? I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but IMO if the writing remains strong, we need not worry.
Coming back to the initial question, I too believe the only logical decision is treating AFfC and ADwD as a whole and combining them, though I have no idea where the seasons should end - will have to keep re-reading because the timeline is a bit blurry in my mind just now.
Really curious about how Braavos will look like though, first time I read AFfC I was so hungry for the story I never even realised that Braavos is a dead ringer for Venice.
PS: just checking, should we use spoiler tags on this thread too?
I think they'll deffinitely abandon Martins geographic split of the stories, and instead do their best fo find a logical stopping point about halfway through each book to end a season on. Part of the reason so many people disliked Dance was that they had to wait 6 years just to read about some of their favourite characters, and suspending half the main cast for a whole year isn't really feasable in TV land.
This!
Imagine if they did season 5 without Dany, Jon or Tyrion ( their award winner) it would be a series suicide!
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
There is no way that the show will do the geographical split, logistics and characters aside.
The reason why AFFC and ADWD were so derided was mainly because of that stupid descision by George. Had the two been combined I believe it would have been much better received. The fact that George had everybody waiting 7 years to see what would happen did not help matters much. Also by doing this many cliffhangers remained unresolved I still want to know what happened to Podrick and how exactly Oathkeeper saved Brienne's life.
So no in short there is no way D@D are stupid enough to make the same mistake twice.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
I'm in agreement with most others that they will combine books 4 and 5 into two seasons ignoring GRRM's geographical split... It just seems like the logical thing to do and frankly I'm still shocked GRRM split it that way in the first place!
Season 3 and 4 will be harder for D&D to script since they are splitting one book, but I think the combining of books 4 and 5 into 2 seasons will be more of a challenge for them honestly. Especially when you consider GRRM's reasoning for splitting the books geographically in the first place - there were no obvious places to stop the arcs midway through the character arcs.
There are many natural split points in A Storm of Swords, although many don't think those break points are strong enough finales for every character. combining two books with no natural halfway break points will be a lot harder.
I need to have a re-read of both books to recall exactly what happens in the middle of each character arc and see if any lend themselves to season finale, but I'm not even going to attempt to guess how D&D will split up Season 4 and Season 5 until after I know how they end Season 3 and 4. If they rush to the huge events in Storm of Swords to have their traditional impact finale (or Episode 9) for Season 3 it will say a lot about how they may buid or re-construct A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. Likewise if they do not rush to the impact events....
-- Edited by Darquemode on Monday 20th of August 2012 03:11:40 AM
I never hated any of the books honestly and do not find the later two books the trainwrecks that some do. I honestly liked A Dance with Dragons quite a bit on my first read. I was not even bothered by the change to Tyrion and enjoyed reading his chapters as much as the previous books. I think I'm in the small minority though.
-- Edited by Darquemode on Monday 20th of August 2012 03:16:16 AM
Agree that D&D will probably take a more chronological approach rather than handling books 4 & 5 as GRRM did. A woman is curious to see which/if any of the minor characters will make the cut for the TV show, there are some really endearing ones that emerge in AFFC (if I recall correctly) and ADWD. Though one shouldn't want time to move more quickly, sometimes it seems impossible to have to wait so long for the next tv season!
No I also enjoyed them quite a bit, though they aren't as good as the first three, they did not ruin the series for me. I wonder how they will handle Brienne's story line, "have you seen a maid of three and ten?" for her entire arc, only interesting thing happens at the end.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
I agree AFFC is not a trainwreck, it had two problems:1. the geographic split. 2. A Storm Swords was a very tough act to follow.
I think a creative fan should grab both AFFC and ADWD and shuffle all chapters in chronological order. Sure it would be a 2500 page book, but it would make a lot more sense.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
I also finished my first read of AFFC right before my copy of Dance arrived, hot off the presses, so i enjoyed AFFC despite the lack of Tyrion.
I hope the show spends more time fleshing out (yes, I mean it) Sam's story and tightens up Brienne's without losing the tragic effect of war on civilians. That's something i think American TV viewers don't get enough of. We may even be in a mood to see it and learn from it by then.
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Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
I also finished my first read of AFFC right before my copy of Dance arrived, hot off the presses, so i enjoyed AFFC despite the lack of Tyrion.
I hope the show spends more time fleshing out (yes, I mean it) Sam's story and tightens up Brienne's without losing the tragic effect of war on civilians. That's something i think American TV viewers don't get enough of. We may even be in a mood to see it and learn from it by then.
Personally I loved the Cersei and Brienne chapters in the book, Lena really stepped up her game in season 2 and should really hit it out of the park in season 5.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
AFFC was just started again last night by a woman after finishing ASOS (3rd time through). It appears that
Spoiler
the Alchemist could easily be played by Jaqen/TomW, and that part could be expanded/returned later to have some interaction/importance with the dragon team. Could see Jaqen doing that con game thing with ease.
-- Edited by MrsHghar on Thursday 6th of September 2012 05:09:43 PM
Like many of you I started reading AFFC when they were making room for ADWD in the book stores so I cannot put myself in the shoes of those who had to wait in between books to find out what was going on with the rest of the characters. That said, I enjoyed AFFC better than ADWD. The Cersei and Jaime chapters were so much fun to read!
There's plenty of storylines to use (that's a blessing and a curse I suppose) but to me, it's harder to find natural cut off points for each arc. Of course they can also add and change a lot, so at this point thinking of AFFC/ADWD _I view them as one giant book_ feels like walking in the mist. Can't really see that far. Perhaps once season 4 is finished (fingers crossed... touching wood) we'll have a better idea which direction they might go.
-- Edited by Tir Airgid on Thursday 6th of September 2012 06:31:05 PM
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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”
AFFC was just started again last night by a woman after finishing ASOS (3rd time through). It appears that
Spoiler
the Alchemist could easily be played by Jaqen/TomW, and that part could be expanded/returned later to have some interaction/importance with the dragon team. Could see Jaqen doing that con game thing with ease.
-- Edited by MrsHghar on Thursday 6th of September 2012 05:09:43 PM
May you be heard by the old gods and the new.
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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”
AFFC was just started again last night by a woman after finishing ASOS (3rd time through). It appears that
Spoiler
the Alchemist could easily be played by Jaqen/TomW, and that part could be expanded/returned later to have some interaction/importance with the dragon team. Could see Jaqen doing that con game thing with ease.
-- Edited by MrsHghar on Thursday 6th of September 2012 05:09:43 PM
Yes, please, pretty please with sugar on top!
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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water. Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.
Maybe not such a crackpot theory here... I mentioned it in chat and the more I think about it, the stronger possibility it may have.
Given that the producers are not shy about combining characters, I think that Talisa might evolve into the Taena (Lady Merryweather) of Myr character. I'm not sure what plans, if any they have for the actress playing Talisa, but this might be an opportunity to bring back someone that some fans might like, and an opportunity to include some things that have been taken out with Talisa, such as the "setup" aspect of the marriage. There is actually nothing particular about Taena that can't be done with Talisa. They're both from somewhere in Essos, they are physically very similar. Taena may be "given" to Lord Merryweather or there might already be a pre-arrangement for helping to bring about the Red Wedding.
Caveat, Talisa was not specifically introduced to Robb; and it hardly seems likely she (unlike Jeyne Westerling) is part of a conspiracy; so pulling off a betrayal will seem somewhat forced, unless carried off the right way.
I saw that MrsHghar used spoiler tags but I'm not sure of the need. I would hardly think anyone interested in this thread will have not read "A Feast for Crows"
-- Edited by Cary Storm on Tuesday 18th of September 2012 05:54:08 PM
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
I did not like Feast the first two reads. But the on the next read I was hooked. I found the political maneuvering very compelling Cersei is such a total (C U next Tuesday). Just cant wait to see the way they unravel her story for the show
Let's face it, Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons were just not up to the standards of the previous books. Not many would have heard of the books let alone made a tv series out of them if those were the only two in the series. Grrm had writers block and tried to expand rather than write with an axe, his editors only let him because of the large fan base. (Hundreds of pages of a feast for crows could be cut out and it would be all the better for it.)
Fortunately the tv series is a chance to rewrite the script, streamline the storyline, and actually improve on the books (typically not the case when it comes to adaptations!). Half of AffC isn't filmable anyway which simplifies things when you consider the show writers will already be wielding great big axes. Brienne's long-winded chase can be cut down to a few scenes or simply cut out (thank goodness). Daenerys' slow trek overseas (and her frequent complaints about its slowness) can be cut down to the fun bits. etc The only reason this would not happen is if the TV series writers started to want to draw it out a few extra seasons...
The show keeps gaining in popularity, just as the best chapters from book 3 are being made reality, can you imagine what would happen to the viewership if we got a tv show based verbatim by the things in AFFC?
They know better, heck...invent something better.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
The main problem I see is that you have a very strong storyline, the one in the North and at the Wall, which ends - or should end - with a big battle. Then you have an extremely boring one (which they can easily change for the better) in Mereen, which ends with a big battle. And in between you have these dragged out storylines that don't make much sense in one season, let alone two. However, they offer a lot of room for manoeuvre, so Brienne - for example - is not a big issue for me. I'm sure they can give her something to do, or connect certain characters to keep them in focus, like they're doing now with *HBO spoilers*
Spoiler
Gendry and Mel.
The thing with Mereen, as with the North, is that there are these two big battles that don't make sense at the beginning of TWoW, when they obviously should have been placed at the end of ADwD. My guess is that the show will combine, cut/change and extend AFfC & ADwD to two seasons, but only if they include both the Battle of Mereen and the battle in the North. If not both, then Mereen at least. I don't even want to think of the budget, but to me it doesn't make sense otherwise. I think that two seasons plus the upcoming battles from TWoW would be much better than one season ending the way ADwD does. And for people who don't want their books spoiled by the show (not really my case), in case TWoW doesn't come out until then - if they make it into one season, they'll catch up with GRRM even sooner. Plus, the battle of Mereen is already written and partly published, so it really doesn't make sense to cut it. Making it into two seasons would pose a bit of an issue though, because where do you cut it so that each character would still have an arc? I don't have an answer for that. All I know is that I don't want another rushed season where they try to cram a thousand things.
-- Edited by Macha on Wednesday 3rd of April 2013 05:32:24 AM
i recently read through all the books again but made up a special policy for feast for crows - i skipped all the Brienne chapters and speed read through many others with peripheral characters. Much more enjoyable. Actually i think i half-skipped a few in dance with dragons as well, the early ones with wotshisface the heir to sunspear beginning his failed mission.
