Black as Snow please read the books, I'm dying to find out what happens in TWOW and your analysis is quite scary as some have already noted. Oh and on the of the Warging and the Starks, both Arya and Jon in the books at this point have already had wolf dreams but I think they are afraid it might become a bit redundant and so skip it. With RObb it's never stated because he is not a POV character. But he also has Warging abilities and that's the reason Grey Wind is so close with him. Think back to the "Three victories don't make you a conqueror" scene. But things will become clearer as the season continues. So it's the same with all of them, they are just focusing on Bran for a reason that will become very apparent next season.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Not gonna do it! I assume TWOW is the book GRRM is writing now? It seems like with the slow pace GRRM is setting, the series may be over before you get your next book. So maybe we will be able to speculate together! If it weren't so much fun watching the series without any clue what's going to happen next, I would've read the books by now. I still have the first one on my Kindle. As soon as I started reading detail about Eddard's sister and all these things that happened twenty years earlier, I knew I had to stop reading.
Oh those are some of the memories I wish they had put in GOT, but I'm sure they will put it in eventually. Just dunno how as after season 1 the only person that knows what happened is Howland Reed, someone we haven't even met in the books yet. Yes several of us have wondered what they are going to do when that happens, stop the series, do a prequel series about Robert's Rebellion or just continue going ahead of the books. I would certainly like to read the books first. TWOW is the Winds of Winter.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
I think a prequel season would be great, and it would take care of the problem of everyone with knowledge of the events being dead. I can't imagine how else you could handle the events of two decades ago effectively. You would need an entire new cast, plus time for all of the exposition so that viewers know who they all are and what they're about. That's way too much to try to squeeze into a ten hour season along with current events. Nobody would be able to keep track of what's going on in what time period. As it is, I think they try to squeeze far too much material into ten hours. They need longer episodes or more episodes per season to give the characters and their plot lines enough time to develop properly.
I know! They need to air three or four episodes of prequel during each offseason. That would give us a nice GoT fix midway through the awful nine month wait.
So are we ever going to find out about Jon Snow's mother? I was so sad when I realized that Ned took the secret to the grave with him after promising to tell Jon about his mother the next time they meet. I would be a sniveling emo kid too if I couldn't even find out who I really am and how I ended up in these circumstances. Not that running off to the Night's Watch is a good solution to his problems...but at least he won't get killed playing the Game of Thrones.
As I was putting up this winter's hay supply (winter IS coming, y'know), I was thinking about whether any character is really safe from getting killed off in season 3. I came to the conclusion that Jon and Dany are two characters they can't kill right now.
Any of the would-be kings and their followers are just as expendable in the storyline as Renley was. If Arya/Gendry, Sansa, Bran/Rickon, the Hound or any of the other wandering characters were killed, it wouldn't make much difference. Even though I don't think they'll kill Arya this season either. I don't feel like any of them are safe.
They won't kill Jon because he is the only character who can carry on the story north of the wall. He is our only real link to everything happening with the return of the white walkers and the wildling army. Yes, we know other characters up north, but none of them can carry the story or are in a position to play the pivotal role Jon can play within the wildling army. It's obvious that the events up north will be important this season, so I think we'll have Jon alive for the season.
Similarly, Dany is our only link to the dragons. If she died, Jorah would sell the dragons and buy himself a nice holding with lots of beautiful women. Who knows where the dragons would end up or if they are old enough to survive without "Momma." While the dragons may ultimately change hands before they return to Westeros, I think they still need Dany for a while longer. She is their link to Westeros and to GoT, so we will see her make it to season 4.
The bottom line is that the series has spent a great deal of time developing Jon and Dany's story arcs. As a result, they're immune from death, but not devastation, in season 3. And I suspect Arya is also in that category, but I wouldn't swear to it. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you the first round of beers. You just have to show up here to claim your prize.
You asking for real? Because you answered your own question somewhere in this thread.
I said something about Jon Snow's mother? I'll have to go back and read what I wrote. And yes, I'm asking for real. Do we find out who she was and how Jon ended up in Winterfell? (Just yes or no would do...I don't want spoilers).
You asking for real? Because you answered your own question somewhere in this thread.
I said something about Jon Snow's mother? I'll have to go back and read what I wrote. And yes, I'm asking for real. Do we find out who she was and how Jon ended up in Winterfell? (Just yes or no would do...I don't want spoilers).
No definite answer, but there will be more clues.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
You asking for real? Because you answered your own question somewhere in this thread.
I said something about Jon Snow's mother? I'll have to go back and read what I wrote. And yes, I'm asking for real. Do we find out who she was and how Jon ended up in Winterfell? (Just yes or no would do...I don't want spoilers).
Well I'm gonna disagree with DNA and say maybe three code letters that book readers will understand but you won't RLJ.
As for your Jon and Dany theory, not saying if you are right or wrong, but that's the kind of thinking that had me in tears when Ned lost his head.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
LOL. True, I am tempting the Gods to prove their cruelty. I couldn't believe Ned was dead. I expected someone to save him somehow. Or to see someone else's head at the beginning of the next episode. I refused to believe it until the next episode made it perfectly clear that there was no mistake. But I stand by my predictions about Jon and Dany. They can die in season 4.
Oh, and Tir, I LOVE your quote. I've never been proud to be a potato before. LOL
Aww, thank you!!! You know, first time I read it I loved it so much I wanted to make a giant potato flag. Resitance!!
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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”
Macha, I'll have to think a little more about Stannis and Melisandre before I post any thoughts. Their next actions are hard to predict. So I'll get back to you.
I'll be very interested in reading your predictions, my lady.
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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”
So what's going to happen north of the wall? It's not as easy to answer as I expected. Some things are obvious. Jon Snow and Ygritte will become an item, but it's not clear whether his feelings will be real or pretend. His naivete leads me to believe he will fall for Ygritte whether he intends to or not. Beyond that, there are many possibilities for Jon in season 3. If Mance Rayder is as savvy as I expect him to be, I don't know that he will fall for Jon's ruse as easily as Jon (or Qorin) hopes. And I don't expect the wildlings to welcome him with open arms either. I think that life with the wildlings will be seductive to Jon, and he will struggle to keep his priorities and bearings as a man of the Night's Watch.
What I'm curious about more than anything else is whether the wildlings have Benjen Stark. The most awful thing I can imagine is if Jon were forced to betray or even kill his uncle. On the other end of the spectrum, Jon could find Benjen among the wildlings as a spy or a traitor. Or maybe Jon will find his uncle's head adorning Mance Rayder's tent. There are countless possibilities. I just hope Benjen turns up again in season 3, one way or another.
Season 2 left the Night's Watchmen pretty well screwed with approaching White Walkers and zombies. It's interesting that in both Season 1, Episode 1 and Season 2, Episode 10, the White Walkers seemed completely disinterested in pursuing cowards. I don't know if it's a plot device or if they know who won't offer resistance. I don't know what, if any, use White Walkers would have for live people. Do they want to reconquer the north by killing the living or by subjugating them? These aren't questions I can answer, even though it would make sense for them to enlarge their zombie army early on in the conflict with plenty of corpses.
What seems certain is that the White Walkers intend to wipe out the Night's Watch contingent. I'm not sure how the Night's Watch can combat them effectively, except perhaps for flaming arrows. But I'm pretty sure I didn't see anyone training in archery at Castle Black. Maybe they can fling burning dung at them. The cache of obsidian weapons that Jon's buddies found is likely to have some effect either on White Walkers or their zombies or both, but it didn't look like very many weapons. I am sure at least some of the Night's Watchmen we have grown attached to will end up dead. And maybe we will see them again with dead bluish eyes. I'm just not sure how the Night's Watch makes it safely back to Castle Black. And it's entirely possible that they won't. I think at least a few of them will survive, but they may end up in the hands of the wildlings or even as prisoners of the White Walkers, if there is any purpose in keeping prisoners. The nature of White Walkers is too unclear to make any assumptions.
What makes sense to me would be for the wildlings and Night's Watch to band together to fight off a common foe. But that's highly unlikely to happen. There's too much bad blood there...just like between the Starks and the Greyjoys.
Sure you haven't been dawdling among the spoilers somewhere?
As one would imagine it would be a test of one's faith to swear an oath among brothers and challenge that among sworn enemies while assuming a spy role. Jon does have his work cut out for him. The GoT Jon did not have much time on screen to demonstrate his commitment but it is well assumed. There were longer discussions between he and Qhorin Halfhand in the books but you're off to a good start. What does not get visualized is the profound effect this mission is to Jon. You will learn more as season3 picks up. Jon is also aware of something else too that his Brother's in Black isn't aware of .
That last scene with the Others and Wights approaching the Fist of the First Men is quite daunting. Even as readers these pages were tense because we had no idea who survived. The cinematic effect was fantastic and better to see on screen than imagined, CGI and Fx was amazing. That horse with ice sword was cracktastic :D
The story remains open for Benjen Stark but he will be mentioned again and again.
Ended up getting spoiled about an upcoming wedding, which sucked. But no, if I was going to read spoiler threads, it would be much more fun to just read the books and get it over with.
I don't think Jon's commitment to anyone but his Night's Watch friend is all that clear, but he is Ned Stark's son and he seems to have learned the same sense of honor. Maybe moreso than his brother, who elopes with the first girl who bats her eyes at him, without regard to his obligations.
I got the gist of what Qorin wanted Jon to do, but it seems like an overly simplistic plan. If it was going to be that easy, this would be a bad cop show, not Game of Thrones. I don't think GRRM would go that route.
Ended up getting spoiled about an upcoming wedding, which sucked. But no, if I was going to read spoiler threads, it would be much more fun to just read the books and get it over with.
I don't think Jon's commitment to anyone but his Night's Watch friend is all that clear, but he is Ned Stark's son and he seems to have learned the same sense of honor. Maybe moreso than his brother, who elopes with the first girl who bats her eyes at him, without regard to his obligations.
I got the gist of what Qorin wanted Jon to do, but it seems like an overly simplistic plan. If it was going to be that easy, this would be a bad cop show, not Game of Thrones. I don't think GRRM would go that route.
I saw the spoiler and it was a small one a TON of things will happen in the next season and that one is rather minor and deeper than what you saw.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Yeah, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine what's coming up next season. It's one thing to take previous events and character traits to their logical conclusion to make some guesses, but it is another to try to figure out GRRM's plot twists. The man is SICK. And I love it!
Well Joffrey and Margeary were already betrothed in season 2, so you had to know a wedding was coming.
I can't wait! I suspect Margeary is every bit as cunning and ruthless as Cersei. Of course, all Cersei's cunning and connivng haven't been enough to rein in Joffrey. But Margeary has a solid grasp of the realities of a political marriage, as she so amply demonstrated in season 2. The verbal sparring and the maneuvering for influence as the balance of power readjusts after the wedding is one of the things I look forward to most about next season.
Cersei loves the power of being queen but hates the responsibilities, Magaery seems to crave every aspect of it. She will Certainly spar with Cersei and her interplay with Sansa could also be interesting.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Your grace, that's not analysis, that's throwing everything against the wall and hoping something sticks. My boss says "even a blind warthog finds and acorn once in a while." I hope he's not calling me a warthog...
I totally wrote off Stannis and friends. Actually, I thought at the end of Blackwater that he had been captured and Joffrey really would behead him with his pretty new sword in the season finale. Imagine my surprise when he was back with Melisandre in episode 10. When I watch Blackwater, it still isn't clear to me that his own men are dragging him away.
After being wrong about Stannis' fate in the battle of Blackwater, I seem to be wrong again. I have to be honest, I thought Stannis would be a peripheral character in season 3, and would die early on. I assumed that the next actions by the Lannister/Tyrell forces would be to finish what they started at the end of last season, namely smashing what's left of Stannis' army. I thought the best Stannis could hope for is ending up in another besieged keep waiting for the end. And I assumed Melisandre would find someone else to buy into her Lord of Light to set up a religious conflict for future seasons.
But the curiosity of forum members about my predictions with regard to Stannis has made it clear that I shouldn't count him out just yet. So here is the best I've been able to come up with thus far for Stannis' crew. We may see the pirate leader again, even though I don't know why he would keep helping Stannis. He is more likely to cut his losses and move on. But I really liked him, so I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that he'll be in season 3.
I think Davos survived, although he might bear more of a resemblance to the Hound than he did last season. But I think Davos' son is dead. I think this will cause more strife than ever between Davos and Melisandre, but both will stay loyal to Stannis...
Actually, I don't think loyal is the appropriate word for Mel. I think she would be gone in an instant if it looked like Stannis was out of the running for the Iron Throne. She is pragmatic, and her goal is to give her religion a foothold in Westeros. She sought out Stannis because she believes she can put him on the Iron Throne, and she would be the power behind the throne. Melisandre's actions with the shadow baby caused Stannis to become conflicted about the price he was paying to win the throne. But I think when Melisandre shared her fiery vision of the future with Stannis, he became a true believer for the first time. Before then, I think he was going through the motions but lacked conviction on some level. I don't think Stannis will continue to resist the Lord of Light or Melisandre in any way this season. He will continue to cooperate with Melisandre's dark magic in season 3. If Stannis is going to survive, I think she will need to use it! And based on what we learned about magic becoming stronger in Qarth last season, she may become very powerful.
A less magic-oriented possibility is that Melisandre will bring in more of her people to reinforce Stannis' forces from wherever she's from. We could have a crusade-style invasion of warriors for the Lord of Light to fight against the other would-be kings.
I don't have any confidence that any of that is right. It sounds wrong to me, but I can't come up with any other ideas. So I'll post something if I have an epiphany about Stannis.
Battle On The Wall will also get its own episode, though I feel this will come in season 4. They better show Dany sack some cities, though if I remember correctly she remained outside the city walls during all of them in the books.
-- Edited by Macha on Thursday 30th of August 2012 03:18:13 PM
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
It wasn't too clear it was his own troops, I think. All the non-readers I know thought Stannis had been captured by Joffrey's forces.
God, I love reading ur predictions, Black. Maybe u should set up shop as Melisandre 2, seeing we're all so eager to know what u see in the flames.
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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”
The denouement of Blackwater was the only weakness of that episode. In the last 5 minutes Tyrion gets injured, new troops arrive to turn the tide of Battle and Tywin busts down the door declaring the battle over. I knew what was going on since I read the books, but I can see how non-readers could feel it was rushed/unclear.
If there ever was the need for a 90 minute episode of GOT, that shouldve been it, regardless it's still the best damn episode of TV ever.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
The guys gently dragging instead of kicking and beating him did not give you the idea that they were Stannis'?
Not at all. He was resisting them, and they were dragging him away. I thought his head would be next to Ned's in short order.
And I enjoyed the pace of the Blackwater episode. It did start slowly, but I enjoyed the growing tension and anticipation. And then it was a mad rush at the end that left me absolutely breathless and blown away. I LOVED it. But a 90 minute episode would have been welcome. I think they either need longer episodes or longer episodes because there's just too much material to give it all the treatment it deserves.
Blackwater was sooo much better on screen than in the books, me thinks. I also thought that the last part of the episode was extremely well done, however Stannis' retreat could have used another few shots or lines of dialogue. Also, none of my TV viewer friends caught that little detail of Loras wearing Renly's armor (and the look on Stannis' face when he thinks he sees his brother for a split second).
Really think they screwed up by not having Renly's armour have the huge antlers like Robert's does in season 1. The antlers would have made it pretty obvious.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Blackwater was sooo much better on screen than in the books, me thinks. I also thought that the last part of the episode was extremely well done, however Stannis' retreat could have used another few shots or lines of dialogue. Also, none of my TV viewer friends caught that little detail of Loras wearing Renly's armor (and the look on Stannis' face when he thinks he sees his brother for a split second).
I did miss Tyrion's chains though. I realize with non-book readers it wouldn't make a difference.
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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water. Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.
Her premonition powers are remarkable, she might be a maegi! :O
No kiddin'. Hey, can you read my palms?
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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water. Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.
Lyanna Stark wrote: I did miss Tyrion's chains though. I realize with non-book readers it wouldn't make a difference.
I do wish they have shown him a little more in charge of the preparations... He seemed to be just stashing wildfire, no?
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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”
I'll be interested to finally read what this chain business is all about. Sounds cool. And I thought Tyrion was doing more than stashing wildfire, but he didn't really seem to be in charge.
Well it's not a spoiler and it does not make a difference when it comes to the battle. Tyrion just had a huge chain fahsioned that was drawn over the mouth of Blackwater bay and trapped Stannis' fleet inside when the wildfire bomb went off. No biggie.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Very cool. I can see why that would be too expensive. I never thought of putting the wildfire in a ship, so that was a pleasant surprise. I thought he would bombard the ships with catapults from the far shore or something like that to keep the wildfire away from the city.
You just have to show up here to claim your prize. 
I'll have to go back and read what I wrote. And yes, I'm asking for real. Do we find out who she was and how Jon ended up in Winterfell? (Just yes or no would do...I don't want spoilers).
But no, if I was going to read spoiler threads, it would be much more fun to just read the books and get it over with. 
Hodor and Osha would be awesome! I approve. And how cool would a wildling wedding be?
My boss says "even a blind warthog finds and acorn once in a while." 
I hope he's not calling me a warthog...
