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Topic: Who will end up on the iron throne when all is done?

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DonalNoyesArm
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Who will end up on the iron throne when all is done?
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This subject started in another thread, figured it could be its own topic, seriously, who? I say Sam, and Hodor as hand of the king!



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Monday 20th of August 2012 01:08:49 AM

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DonalNoyesArm
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

WildSeed has made it, the roster is almost complete!

I seriously don't hope that the seven kingdoms will split again as this will destroy the legacy of Aegon the Conqueror. Remember Greatjon's words, "its the dragons we bowed to." Well the Dragons still have a major role to play. What about left field option Victorian's horn works and he gains control of the dragons, how does that shake the game.

WildSeed you find the clues and when you do spare us the trouble and tell us too.

Ugh! Why did ya mention The GreatJon? I am still bummed he won't be back next season, that guy was amazing and his stuff at the Red Wedding was going to be epic. Anyways... Am I the only one pissed how Danny botched the training of her dragons? She treated them more as pets rather than war beasts, granted no one has trained a dragon in hundreds of years in Westeros, but she was too busy placating the morons around Slavers bay. She did seem to finally get a clue at the end of ADWD, so let's see what develops.

-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Sunday 19th of August 2012 09:02:08 PM

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Aegon the Conqueror
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I sincerely hope Aegon makes it and the only way I want her to live is if Dany marries Aegon and gives him Drogon.

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Michel
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There will be no more Iron Throne, in the end, it's gonna be seven kingdoms again and won't have a king for all the helm.



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WildSeed
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confuse I envisioned Aegon with aid of Danerys yet GRRM will add many twists to make this outcome unlikely. With

so many stories evolving within A Dance with Dragons it's inconceivable to cancel one major house or alliance

out. As the question regarding true family ancestry unfolds, we may end up accepting that Targaryen blood

mingles with most of the Seven Kingdoms and beyond. Are Cersei and Tyrion related by both parents ? Is Jon

who we think he is ? Will there be any influence from the COTF Greenseers and Rh'llar followers or do they just

interpret the signs ? As all parties duke it out does it matter who sits upon the Iron Throne because they are only

keeping the seat warm until the next overthrow ? Theories and questions mount but GRRM knows the end and

I exhort us all to watch and listen for consistencies he writes or speaks of. There are clues dammit and I intend

to learn what they are. Meanwhile someone seriously needs to come up with a gameboard that applies this 

question.



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WildSeed
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hmm Possible Maybe. It would certainly make life easier for the short run, until Walder Frey cies out that he

didn't get his fair share along with the treacherous Boltons and arrogant Greyjoys. Hmmmsmile If we got rid

of all the bad apples..no Ugh more rotten seeds sprout up. Oh for an honorable peace accord. Let's meet

at the Isle of Faces  for lunch and discuss it. I'll try and keep an open mind blankstare



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DonalNoyesArm
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I have a feeling a LOT of people will die in the next book.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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WildSeed has made it, the roster is almost complete!

I seriously don't hope that the seven kingdoms will split again as this will destroy the legacy of Aegon the Conqueror. Remember Greatjon's words, "its the dragons we bowed to." Well the Dragons still have a major role to play. What about left field option Victorian's horn works and he gains control of the dragons, how does that shake the game.

WildSeed you find the clues and when you do spare us the trouble and tell us too.

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WildSeed
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The Greatjon, RIP. At least he doesn't know what his relatives have been up to.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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I cannot emphasise how much I want Smalljon to make an appearance at the RW. Clive Mantle why did you forsake us?
No you most certainly are not, part of the reason why I don't want Dany on the throne everything Dany does after taking MEreen is pretty much stupid. And her political marriage? That's the equivalent of having Obama's daughter marry the head of Al Kaida!!!!

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WildSeed
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Ha Ha welcome to the political world. Madness isn't it



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Aegon the Conqueror
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Madness or sheer stupidity?

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Lyanna Stark
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

I cannot emphasise how much I want Smalljon to make an appearance at the RW. Clive Mantle why did you forsake us?
No you most certainly are not, part of the reason why I don't want Dany on the throne everything Dany does after taking MEreen is pretty much stupid. And her political marriage? That's the equivalent of having Obama's daughter marry the head of Al Kaida!!!!

 Oh 7 Hells not that! Gods have mercy.  This is a long shot but what about Roberrt's bastard, Gendry.  Is he not Robert's true heir? I know there are others but isn't Gendry the oldest? Or is that the daughter in the Erye? For my own selfish reasons, I want Jon Snow (baby boy!) but in truth, Gendry seems the heir.



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
DonalNoyesArm
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So we are going all fan-fictioney?

Jon dies but gets revived by Melissandre, freeing him from the knights watch oath. He then takes the Wildlings to Winterfell and reinforces Stannis' battle. They breach the castle and it becomes Snow Vs Snow as Jon guts the Bastard of Bolton. Stannis rewards Jon by legitimizing him. His victory Rouses the Noth as they have a new King in The North. Phew, that was tiring! And just one character! This is hard work!



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Monday 20th of August 2012 08:51:00 AM

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The Instrumentalist
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I know it's a faint hope, but I still want a separate North. I would love if there was a Stark as one of the dragon riders. Bran could slip into one IMO and he is with Bloodraven... I think Bran's going to have a huge role coming up whether he turns out hero or villain, muhaha.

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MrsHghar
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Dany & Aegon get married and are on the Iron Throne with Brandon Stark as Hand of the King&Queen. Bran gets to ride one of the dragons (because the raven with 3 eyes told him all there is to know about dragons and their training, including their language, which he teaches Dany & Aegon). Drogon will only be ridden by Dany, so one of the other ones has to be ridden by Aegon, and there...the dragon has 3 heads. Old Griff chops off his arm and survives the Grey thingee. Jon Snow lives and stays at the wall (which survives the Others attack) for life though he has found out that he is part Baratheon/Targareon/whatever, not Ned's son after all. After a hot affair with the "wildling princess" which does not yield a bastard. Sam is back at the wall as Maester and Gilly & baby are in Moletown running an Inn (where Sam can stop by now and again, realizing it's OK to not be perfect in an imperfect world). Sansa kills Littlefinger (her Lemoncakes turn out to be deadly), rebuilds Winterfell, brings Rickon and Catelyn back, falls in love with the crippled Martell brother and marries him after Rickon is old enough to take over Winterfell. Nymeria returns to Winterfell and bonds with Sansa (with her new litter) until Arya returns to Westeros. Arya helps Dany, Aegon, and Tyrion defeat the Lannisters and they all bend the knee to the new Targareon King & Queen. Arya re-unites with her family and Nymeria, become the first female Kingsguard member. Rickon marries Marcella Baratheon (after her Dornish prince dies of the flux), ending the Lannister vs Stark wars. She has a way with Shaggydog. Tommen bends the knee to Dany & Aegon, goes back to Casterly Rock with his wife Margaery and Ser Pounce. Cersei lives with Tommen at Casterly Rock, to the eternal consternation of Margaery (who keeps trying to perfect her Lamprey Pie recipe and never pleases Cersei). Final scene, harvest at Winterfell with Rickon in the big chair. Sorry if I spoiled anything GRRM!

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Jon is dies a hero/ savior of the realm..

Jorah is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch with Longclaw in hand.

Cersei is dead and probably quite annoyed that Jaime is seen as a hero in the end and she is seen as a villainess.

Tyrion inherits Casterly Rock by default since he is the only heir left, and turns into a Medieval Times which becomes the destination where whores go... at least the classy ones.

Brienne is commander of the King's Gaurd.

Daenerys is dead as are her dragons.

Sansa is Queen, married to a Targaryen bastard who is not Jon.



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Aegon the Conqueror
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Yeah would be quite weird if Sansa marries Jon.
Mr's H'ghar that's a nice fantasy, I say fantasy because if it turns out to be true I will start fearing you on a whole other level.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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I suppose if his Targeryen ancestry is discovered and Donal's theory is correct, then having Jon marry Sansa will very much strenghten his claim to the North.

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DonalNoyesArm
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Well if Stannis makes Snow into Stark he would not have to marry Sansa ( Eeeeeww ), I think he will hook up with Val since he likes Wildling booty or Melissandre since he likes redheads. ;-P

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Aegon the Conqueror
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That's why I said if Jon's heritage comes to light, being a Targeryen and all, he should marry Sansa in order to secure the north.

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Wedge
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Hello, everybody, first post here.
This forum is a really nice idea
(Excuses in advance for the syntax, I'm from France)

----------

So regarding the matter here...
I'm all for a Littlefinger's puppet on the throne.

As mentioned on this thread previously, I don't believe any of the (real) Stark or Targaryen survivors will sit on the Throne.
They (Bran, Jon and Dany) will battle side by side against the Winter and its creatures and manage to stop near Winterfell thanks to the dragons (after the Wall was destroyed). Dany, Jon and Bran will be the dragon riders. Jon survives and remains the (now uncontested) leader of the Night's Watch, Bran returns to Bloodraven to take his place as the "conscience", "living history" of Westeros. Dany is killed by Melissandre (she turns on everybody after the victory on the white-walkers, Rhollor is not better than the great other, just another kind of evil that was responsible for the doom of Valeria by the way). Melissandre is herself killed by Bran with help of the children of the forest (the only true protector of westeros). Only one dragon, remains under the control of men: Jon's one, the other vanished in the sky never to be seen again (therefore removing the Dragon=WMD variable of the "who gets the Throne" equation). The wall is rebuilt by the magic of the Children of the Forest.

From there 2 option:

-Littlefinger's plan totally works, he gets control of the Vale and manage to regain full control over Sansa. The "North" option will be closed to him due to Davos finding Rickon and Stannis winning the battle against the Bolton. So he will head south, join the cause of Aegon the Fake (don't believe at all he is the real Aegon), expose Connington disease to get rid of him and take his place at the side of Aegon, marry Sansa and Aegon, put Aegon on the Throne and finally help him to defeat Stannis on the field. All bend the knee to Aegon (either by way of war or blood-related allegiance). Happy ending at the Wall and for the Starks (Rickon rules Winterfell, Sansa is the Queen she always wanted to be and Aegon is a nice guy, Bran and Jon are alive and doing things they like). But "bad" ending at King's Landing as the Game of Thrones is still in full swing with Littlefinger as the current winner of the game. End scene with Baelish sitting on the Throne at night when somebody (looking strangely like Arya) prepare a very special breakfast for him in the kitchens...

-Stannis gets the North behind him while Sansa manage to get rid of Littlefinger in the Vale. Aegon the Fake wins the South with help of the Dornish. And soon, the Tyrells turns their cloaks again to join the winner. Big South vs North battle. Stannis and the North wins, he gets the Throne. Shireen dies one way or another. Stannis repudiates Selyse for worshiping Rhollor (to conveniently make everyone forgot he was also a worshiper when it served his cause). End scene with two men talking in the dark in King's Landing: "And what if his new queen gives him a heir", "Don't worry, I've seen to that", "So we just wait now...", "Yes, we just wait".

In any case I don't want a clear finish implying a long period of political stability / peace for westeros.
That would mean that one of the Houses managed to completely dominate the others and I don't find it likely given the situation at the end of ADWD.
So "dirty/unclear" finish in King's Landing and "happy ending" in the North.

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Wedge, como tele voux? Bien? Bon apetite, and not much more French!



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
MrsHghar
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

So we are going all fan-fictioney?

Jon dies but gets revived by Melissandre, freeing him from the knights watch oath. He then takes the Wildlings to Winterfell and reinforces Stannis' battle. They breach the castle and it becomes Snow Vs Snow as Jon guts the Bastard of Bolton. Stannis rewards Jon by legitimizing him. His victory Rouses the Noth as they have a new King in The North. Phew, that was tiring! And just one character! This is hard work!



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Monday 20th of August 2012 08:51:00 AM

Yes, we ARE going all fan-fictioney to be sure! A woman also thought that Melissandre may have a role in saving Jon Snow, because she really has the "hots" for him (pun intended) and secretly thinks JS might REALLY be Assor Asshat or whatever. Jon Stark as King In the North would also be cool (pun also intended). Does he get a queen in your story? 



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Gabrius_Stark
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Wedge wrote:


So regarding the matter here...
I'm all for a Littlefinger's puppet on the throne.


 

Personally I'm totally convinced that Lord Baelish will be the winner in the end...

Lord Commander Jon Snow of the Night's Watch, bastard son of Lord Stark of Winterfell, appears to be dead at the hands of his brothers!

Stannis Baratheon may yet hang dead at Winterfell, Neither Margery and Cersei will hold any real power again after recent events and god knows whats going to happen in Dorne?

Daenerys will finally accept that the east is beyond her power to save from itself and the lessons learned at the end of her exile purge her immature and irresponsible attitudes, when both Targaryans are united, she will see that the dragon flame burns everything in its path regardless of want or desire so should not be provoked into action without fear of the consequences.

Littlefinger has indirect influence over Westeros from the south shore of the Trident river and Harrenhal all the way to the neck in the north since the banners of Frey and Mallister belong to Riverrun and therefore to the heir of house Tully, he commands the titles required and the power as guardian (and later most likely) lord protector of both the Vale of Arryn and also the Riverlands, Riverrun and Harrenhal since the landed lords would certainly consider Robin Arryn unfit to rule.

If Baelish reveals Sansa as the last heiress of these titles that have cunningly passed from the houses of Arryn, Tully and Stark to Sansa as the last remaining of the direct line of Tully, Stark and by a matrilineal marriage releasing any claim he might have made for himself thereby pleasing everyone :D



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Cary Storm
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Gabrius_Stark wrote:

 

Lord Commander Jon Snow of the Night's Watch, bastard son of Lord Stark of Winterfell, appears to be dead at the hands of his brothers!

 

Oh, come now, you haven't falled for that bait'n'switch! There's a classic cliffhanger if I've ever heard of one. We haven't actually seen him die at the end, have we? Looks can be deceiving...

Anyway, no, as far as far-fetched theories go, I'm going to go with Dany meeting Tommen and instantly falling in love with the pudgy little creature; thereby ultimately keeping the spawn of Cersei on King's Landing. Of course, being the awful mother-in-law, that she is, she won't last 2 weeks before Dany has her head on a spike. 



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DonalNoyesArm
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Cary Storm wrote:
 Of course, being the awful mother-in-law, that she is, she won't last 2 weeks before Dany has her head on a spike. 

 Oh come on, we know Cersei would make a delicious dragon snack!



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Wedge
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Lyanna: The way you spelled "Comment allez vous?" was funny, made me thinks of some Portuguese with a Brazilian accent! :)
(But the phonetic was quite alright)

 


DonalNoye and Cary: I would be disappointed if Cersei ended up dead before the end of the books. I mean... it would be much, much better if she lives to see:
-Tyrion inherit Casterly Rock after being pardoned by whoever will be the King at this time.
-Jaime falling in love with Brienne
-Her son discovering the whole truth and hating her forever



-- Edited by Wedge on Tuesday 21st of August 2012 09:12:06 AM

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Wedge
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Me neither, but I think death would be too easy and not very interesting for the character.
It would be better if the madness completely takes her.

And I agree about her descent into madness being one of the best part of Book 4.
But regarding prophecies, we have yet to see one come true, so...

 

-----------

 

Aegon: Speaking of Robert Strong, am I the only one who is dying to see a " spiritually reborn" Hound facing a "literally reborn" Moutain? That would be pure awesomeness!



-- Edited by Wedge on Tuesday 21st of August 2012 11:16:19 AM

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DonalNoyesArm
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

I thought the whole point of reborn Sandor was that he lets go of his desire for revenge. So I have actually never contemplated the two reborns dueling it out.

 Wasnt there an "abnormally large brother" at the monastary Brianne visited? I think having Sandor die offscreen makes it pretty convenient for him to be whisked away somewhere. 

 "Sandor Clegane dreamed of slaying his own brother, a sin so terrible it makes me shudder just to speak of it. Yet it was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning. Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for...and even that was taken from him when Prince Oberyn of Dorne stabbed Ser Gregor with a poisoned spear".

But waaaait, Robert Strong still exsists, but who would stop him? My oh my??



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Tuesday 21st of August 2012 11:51:15 AM

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That's a perfectly valid point.

And that would be a nice ending for such a tortured character to finish his life far from fights and violence in an isolated monastere.

 

But to me a "non violent-flower power-tree huger sandor cleagane" is like a "peacefull chuck norris", something we wont see in our dimension/reality!

Plus TV Sandor is such an unstoppable war machine that I want to see him kill some more while throwing awesome one-liners such as: "Any man die with a clean sword, I rape its ****in' corpse"! ^^

 



-- Edited by Wedge on Tuesday 21st of August 2012 12:45:59 PM

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Lyanna Stark
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Wedge wrote:

Lyanna: The way you spelled "Comment allez vous?" was funny, made me thinks of some Portuguese with a Brazilian accent! :)
(But the phonetic was quite alright)

 

 I can speak some french but can not write any of it, obviously! I am pretty fluent in spanish but have not written much of it since High School, so it's been a while.  O francee se voux preferee? So bad!



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
DonalNoyesArm
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Wedge wrote:

would be disappointed if Cersei ended up dead before the end of the books. I mean... it would be much, much better if she lives to see:
-Tyrion inherit Casterly Rock after being pardoned by whoever will be the King at this time.
-Jaime falling in love with Brienne
-Her son discovering the whole truth and hating her forever



-- Edited by Wedge on Tuesday 21st of August 2012 09:12:06 AM

I like her character actually, I mean I find her interesting. Her descent into madness was the best part of book 4. But Maggie the Frogs prophecy hangs over her head....I don't see a happy ending for her.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Cersei is that one character i just love to hate, I mean I actually smiled when she had her walk, however mean that sounds and then when Qyburn told her about Robert Strong I was like nooooooo!

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DonalNoyesArm
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

Cersei is that one character i just love to hate, I mean I actually smiled when she had her walk, however mean that sounds and then when Qyburn told her about Robert Strong I was like nooooooo!

 Robert Strong, more like Robo Frankenstein Clegane! :O



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Aegon the Conqueror
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I thought the whole point of reborn Sandor was that he lets go of his desire for revenge. So I have actually never contemplated the two reborns dueling it out.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Yes that's exactly who I was reffering to, his bother's death was the catalyst for his transformation. He has let go of his hatred and his revenge and that's the reason why I can't see a duel between the two, I might be wrong.

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Cary Storm
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Jon has passed out from loss of blood after being stabbed. Does not equal dead.

(Preview chapter spoiler follows)

Spoiler



-- Edited by Cary Storm on Wednesday 22nd of August 2012 12:08:38 PM

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Aegon the Conqueror
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I did not say he will stay on that island forever, if he does I will be very upset. I imagine him going on a quest to find his helmet and whoever has taken on his persona to redeem himself. Can't remember if Rorge was already dead at that point. But if he isn't he would make an awesome nemesis for Sandor. The Hound is dead people, but Sandor is very much alive!

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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Wedge wrote:

 

would be disappointed if Cersei ended up dead before the end of the books. I mean... it would be much, much better if she lives to see:
-Tyrion inherit Casterly Rock after being pardoned by whoever will be the King at this time.
-Jaime falling in love with Brienne
-Her son discovering the whole truth and hating her forever



-- Edited by Wedge on Tuesday 21st of August 2012 09:12:06 AM

 

I like her character actually, I mean I find her interesting. Her descent into madness was the best part of book 4. But Maggie the Frogs prophecy hangs over her head....I don't see a happy ending for her.

 First woman ever sent to the Wall?  Could be a precedent...



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Andrew
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I trust Griff, and I trust Barristan. As a Targaryen since book one, i'm still hoping Aegon and Dany win out in the end.

Though Tyrions little "Could they really have fallen for it?" line about Aegon actually going to Westeros made me worried for days. I thought it was a great plan.

It also seems very GRRM-ish to have Jon actually die at the end of book 5, and then later have Howland/Meera and Jojen reveal R+L=J is true haha.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Oh Jon is not dead, otherwise we would have gotten confimation in ADWD. Totally agree with the Aegon Dany thing though I'd be ok with Dany dying. Aren't you a little worried about the Mummer's Dragon?

As for Cersei on the wall, wouldn't work two weeks and she'll be ****ing Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moonboy for all we know.

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Gabrius_Stark
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Must be getting rusty and may have to make time for a re-read, at least from the start of Affc but I am pretty sure that Jon's death occurred in the closing stages of ADWD where the scope of the book had caught up with the other characters experiences and then moved forward in time to wrap things up?

Also, where it may be nothing more than Bolton's ruse to keep his enemies off balance, Stannis Baratheon may well be just as dead as they claim... It would not be the first time that Mellisandre had so catastrophically misread the signs shown to her in the flames nor the first time a seemingly important player is removed from the game so abruptly would it?

If nothing else, JRRM has challenged the nature of what a main character is to us, especially given the blunt truth of the game itself:

"You win or you die!"

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Well I still say if Jon was dead his death would have been cofirmed, at the very least he will be reanimated by Melisandre.
As for the Stannis thing GRRM has stated the battle in the snow will take place in the first few chapters of WOW, so Stannis is not dead, not yet.

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WildSeed
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Cary Storm wrote:

Jon has passed out from loss of blood after being stabbed. Does not equal dead.

Stannis is not dead in WOW. The preview chapter available on GRRM's site, from Theon's perspective has Stannis very much alive. Whether that takes place before or after the bastard's bluff is anyone's guess.

 Yeah, we all know , GRRM needs to dawdle with our emotions to keep us engaged. Have you read the Dunk and Egg tales ?



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Cary Storm
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WildSeed wrote:

 Yeah, we all know , GRRM needs to dawdle with our emotions to keep us engaged. Have you read the Dunk and Egg tales ?

 Only one Graphic Novel from a few years ago. Although it seems to me that I had a copy of Legends I at one time. 



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WildSeed
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All three or just the Hedge Knight ? I'm about to read the Mystery Knight. Someone mentioned that a 4th
Tale is due in 2012 or '13 .

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Cary Storm
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Just the Hedge Knight.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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You should rectify that, Tales of Dunk and Egg are quite fascinating!

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Third one is the best!

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