I'm only pointing out that he was impaled with 4 daggers, one between the shoulders and one in the gut and two others unspecified that his chances of survival would seem to be pretty low given that two of the Lannister lords who before their untimely and unexpected deaths from single gut wounds also appeared to have huge roles to play in future events?
You are right of course in saying that there's no confirmation that Connington, Stannis or Jon Snow are actually dead given Catelyn's apparent resurrection but at the same time it does appear likely :D
Connington is the mostl likely to die I think, lest Aegon have a good councillor next to him, something GRRM can't allow. Don't think Jon will die, he's the only eyes on the wall we have.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Connington is the mostl likely to die I think, lest Aegon have a good councillor next to him, something GRRM can't allow. Don't think Jon will die, he's the only eyes on the wall we have.
I have the same inclination but GRRM holds the pen. Remember Asha/Yarra, I could not rule out her death but I
was still gasping when I read her reply to Stannis.
Your grace, must the evening veils pull at your eyelids ? Have thy much sleep or rough training with the corps ? Methinks m'lady YvyB has gone ahead to her chamber for sleeping or drinking Dornish Red in private. Gratitude for the raven to ser Noye, he has read my premise and took it in great regard.
That's only partially true; the way that I look at it, it may take some time but from the start of the next book it's possible that we will have increasing knowledge of events that before has necessitated individual characters and their associated viewpoints...
Obviously, I am referring to Bran and therefore every raven, crow, human and beast to see and hear :)
We are preparing for club champs, one of the most prestigious non professional tournaments in SA rugby. This is the first time I am playing for a team that has qualified. As such we are traning very hard and right now I'm just too sore to go to bed. I had a shoulder op about a year ago and I'm feeling every one of the screws in my shoulder so yeah I'm wide awake!
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
GRRM the man himself said it would be a bitter sweet ending. My take is several beloved characters WILL die. Also regarding Arya, again GRRM has stated one of HIS favorite characters... I'm put in mind of the foreshadowing.... (aint got a book in-front of me so I may misquote a little ..) Jon says.. they will find you frozen with your hand tightly round a" needle"....
We are preparing for club champs, one of the most prestigious non professional tournaments in SA rugby. This is the first time I am playing for a team that has qualified. As such we are traning very hard and right now I'm just too sore to go to bed. I had a shoulder op about a year ago and I'm feeling every one of the screws in my shoulder so yeah I'm wide awake!
Your grace I will send for a Maester for that shoulder and I promise it won't be Quiburn (sp?)!
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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water. Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.
OK, changed my mind. A woman now thinks it will be Arya on the Iron Throne. After leaving the Faceless Men because she can't stop being a warg, she'll run into Jaqen and they'll join up with Dany to take Westeros. Arya'll conquer Westeros with Dany and Tyrion (each riding a dragon). Tyrion and Dany will both get killed and Arya will end up on the throne since she can warg into any of the dragons and make them do what she wants. She'll find Gendry again and make him her King, they'll rule together (though he'll spend most of his time tinkering with his anvil and making cool weapons and household accouterment). They'll have 3 children who will warg and learn how to ride the dragons.
Stannis is not dead in WOW. The preview chapter available on GRRM's site, from Theon's perspective has Stannis very much alive. Whether that takes place before or after the bastard's bluff is anyone's guess.
Ser Storm, from what I read, the preview chapter happens before Ramsay's letter. It was obvious enough the letter was a bluff/fake without having GRRM lessen the impact again by giving us a straight answer in a preview chapter. Speaking of which, now that's what I call a proper preview chapter-
Spoiler
Stannis being his usual bamf self and signing letters with his own blood
. Flippin' hardcore.
-- Edited by Macha on Wednesday 22nd of August 2012 01:43:49 PM
Stannis is not dead in WOW. The preview chapter available on GRRM's site, from Theon's perspective has Stannis very much alive. Whether that takes place before or after the bastard's bluff is anyone's guess.
Ser Storm, from what I read, the preview chapter happens before Ramsay's letter. It was obvious enough the letter was a bluff/fake without having GRRM lessen the impact again by giving us a straight answer in a preview chapter. Speaking of which, now that's what I call a proper preview chapter-
Spoiler
Stannis being his usual bamf self and signing letters with his own blood.
Flippin' hardcore.
Stannis is my man.
-- Edited by Cary Storm on Wednesday 22nd of August 2012 02:32:44 PM
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
OK, changed my mind. A woman now thinks it will be Arya on the Iron Throne. After leaving the Faceless Men because she can't stop being a warg, she'll run into Jaqen and they'll join up with Dany to take Westeros. Arya'll conquer Westeros with Dany and Tyrion (each riding a dragon). Tyrion and Dany will both get killed and Arya will end up on the throne since she can warg into any of the dragons and make them do what she wants. She'll find Gendry again and make him her King, they'll rule together (though he'll spend most of his time tinkering with his anvil and making cool weapons and household accouterment). They'll have 3 children who will warg and learn how to ride the dragons.
I agree that Arya and Gendry marry although I'm unsure if either will be on the throne. I still believe although not likely to occur, that Gendry has the best claim to the Iron Throne being Roberts heir.
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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water. Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.
Unfortunately he would have to be legitimized for that to happen. According to the law Stannis is the rightful heir, unless of course you take into account the Targeryen dynasty in which case it's Aegon.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Yes though I heard late 2012. The Fourth one will be called "the She Wolves" and sees Dunk travelling North to visit Winterfell and impregnate one of Hodor's ancestors.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
According to the law Stannis is the rightful heir, unless of course you take into account the Targeryen dynasty in which case it's Aegon.
You know, I've seen this being discussed in every ASOIAF related forum, so I'm gonna bring it here as well: why should the Targaryens come first, at this point? Yes, Aegon unified the kingdoms, but he did became king by right of conquest, just as Robert did. Dany (or Aegon) calling themselves the rightful heir is not surprising, but it's only a matter of discourse, and a double discourse as that. Right of conquest comes before right of inheritance - the Targaryens made use of that, but somehow we shouldn't apply the same rule for the Baratheons? If Aegon the Conqueror would have been a Westerosi subject, he would have been called an Usurper as well. I'm actually glad the writers had the Spice King putting things into perspective for Dany. The throne is not 'rightfully hers', as she keeps demanding, unless she takes it back.
Ok in which case Stannis is the rightful heir, unless either Dany or Aegon can take the throne by force. Something that doesn't seem that difficult to do from a millitary point of view.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Wasn't the letter in ADwD? I don't think we need spoiler tags for books already out in this particular section of the forum, just for when we're discussing chapters from TWoW.
Re: the letter I've just noticed this, and it's minor, but why does it say "six whores who came with him from Winterfell"? Shouldn't that be "to Winterfell"?
Back on topic: You know, I have absolutely no idea who will end up on the throne at the end, if there will even be a throne by that time. I'm leaning towards the unexpected though: no Starks, no Targs.
-- Edited by Macha on Thursday 23rd of August 2012 04:45:49 PM
Ser Storm, from what I read, the preview chapter happens before Ramsay's letter. It was obvious enough the letter was a bluff/fake without having GRRM lessen the impact again by giving us a straight answer in a preview chapter.
-- Edited by Macha on Wednesday 22nd of August 2012 01:43:49 PM
Hallllooooo Macha :) Is that known or is that your take on it ?
That the letter is a bluff? Oh no, I didn't mean to imply GRRM said so, or that ample evidence exists to support this. It was only my take on it, based on how GRRM handles cliffhangers and off-screen events in the series. From what I could tell, most book readers on other forums feel the same way - yet the letter might hold some truth: I'm not so sure Mance was captured, however the spearwives definitely were; as for Stannis - it just seems highly unlikely that GRRM would treat his defeat/his capture as an off-screen event that we're alerted to by means of a letter. It could be that the letter wasn't written by Ramsay at all.
Saying again ,GRRM states that the battle in the snow takes place early in WOW. So how do you guys think Stannis will kill Ramsay, because simply burning him just doesn't seem enough. Perhaps he should give him to THeon to play with.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
Saying again ,GRRM states that the battle in the snow takes place early in WOW. So how do you guys think Stannis will kill Ramsay, because simply burning him just doesn't seem enough. Perhaps he should give him to THeon to play with.
Ups, sorry. I think GRRM might have hinted at that, can't remember. He did say the battle will take place in the beginning of TWoW,
Spoiler
and Theon's chapter is obviously before the battle. It only seems fitting that the letter is somehow connected to the result of the battle, hence the general belief that the letter comes after Theon's chapter.
I don't see Stannis winding up on the end of a rope at the hands of the Bastard; no matter the sequence of things. I think the letter is entirely meant to draw Jon out.
Besides, this: "I want my Reek." <--
Spoiler
If he had Stannis, don't you think he'd already know what happened to Theon?
I think the letter is a huge bluff.
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
I just did. I could type it out here for everyone if we so like :)
that's ok for me as so have I!
Another point that would find hard to quickly puit my hands on ... previous letters .. in blood? And does he not have some sort of seal? or is it just the pink wax? Deffinately to draw Jon out IMO also.
Here is the letter for anyone who wants to read it:
Spoiler
Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.
Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.
I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him from Winterfell.
I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.
Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
I think the entire discussion about the legitimacy of the letter risks too much revelation from the preview chapter, so I'm going to put my speculations in spoiler tags from here on out:
Spoiler
Bolton is completely and utterly focused on Mance Rayder, what he knows from Mance and nothing else. He doesn't seem to have any of the details brought to light by the preview chapter from WoW.
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
How does Bolton know about Stannis' sword? Does Stannis have it in the free chapter? Has Bolton captured someone who knows about it? (For that matter, Rayder might know about it)
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
Here is the letter for anyone who wants to read it:
Spoiler
Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.
Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.
I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him from Winterfell.
I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.
Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell
Mmmm I don't think he used the word Bastard enough.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
How does Bolton know about Stannis' sword? Does Stannis have it in the free chapter? Has Bolton captured someone who knows about it? (For that matter, Rayder might know about it)
Very easy to answer, half the realm knows about Lightbringer, re-reading ASOS and one of the commoners states early in the books to Brienne that KL is under siege by Stannis and that he has a magic sword. BTW I found it strange that Lightbringer didnt glow in the series.
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AS private parts we are to the gods, they play with us for their sport.
The hooded man is Alliser Thorne. He would be nasty enough to laugh at Theon, he would well well equiped to travel in the Snow. He would like to end Jon "Bastard" Snow's command and see's an allie in the Boltons. He would recognise Mance.
How does Bolton know about Stannis' sword? Does Stannis have it in the free chapter? Has Bolton captured someone who knows about it? (For that matter, Rayder might know about it)
Very easy to answer, half the realm knows about Lightbringer, re-reading ASOS and one of the commoners states early in the books to Brienne that KL is under siege by Stannis and that he has a magic sword. BTW I found it strange that Lightbringer didnt glow in the series.
Another disappointment. I've considered that this is not so important to the producers or their scope of ASOIAF.
And you can bet your arse that Tywin's gift to his son won't be red either. As an author the written word colors
in so much to further engage the reader. On screen there are so many vivid distractions and something must
be streamlined or toned down. Still I miss the feature of Lightbringer as well as the sorely missed feature of
Valyrian steel ripples. Even once on screen aside from the enormity of it's size when Eddard held would have
spoken volumes alone. One scene was ggod enough but was not considered important. At the beach at the
burning of the Seven scene we saw a sword ignited with flames. Does this mean never glowing without the
YvyB, the Allister Thorne theory is an interesting one, I remember reading it before and it does hold some ground. Heh, probably one of the most interesting theory people have come up with re: the hooded man in Winterfell is that he's Theon's own reflection. I'm not adhering to that, but I thought it was really awesome people came up with that.
Flippin' hardcore. 
Aegon the Conqueror wrote:
Think I need to re read the letter
