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Topic: Dunk and Egg ( Novella and Book Spoilers )

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DonalNoyesArm
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Dunk and Egg ( Novella and Book Spoilers )
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I pretty much ignored the novellas after finishing the 5 ASOIAF books, I don't know why.

Until someone mentioned them recently and I found they wonderful bits of bite sized goodness.

Finished the first 2 and now working on the last one. I am going through it slowly, because I know

it will be the last thing GOT related I will read till the next book.

 

Or maybe I should read "The Ice Dragon".....I am a bit curious what a childrens book from GRRM looks like.



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YvyB
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I've just read Hedge knight ... loved it .. but I can't justify spending more money on large books for the sake of one small story ... so I'm waiting with baited breath for the promised compendium ...

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Cary Storm
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YvyB wrote:

I've just read Hedge knight ... loved it .. but I can't justify spending more money on large books for the sake of one small story ... so I'm waiting with baited breath for the promised compendium ...

 I bought the Graphic Novel, that's where I read Hedge Knight.



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Macha
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Loved the D&E novellas, I just hope the next one finds them up North.

About "The Ice Dragon" I wonder if we'd be able to find some parallels or interesting tidbits in there, but from what I know, GRRM specifically said that's not related to the world of Ice and Fire in any way.

How do we handle spoilers in this thread, DNA?



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DonalNoyesArm
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RE: Dunk and Egg ( Novella and Book Spoilers )
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Macha wrote:
About "The Ice Dragon" I wonder if we'd be able to find some parallels or interesting tidbits in there, but from what I know, GRRM specifically said that's not related to the world of Ice and Fire in any way.

 I have read reviews and it seems it is, the childrens book was actually an adult story that got slightly edited and got illustrations.



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Aegon the Conqueror
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Well Yvy if you are just yearning to read the other two I could send them to you.

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YvyB
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Aegon ! You are such the tempter.... :D


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Aegon the Conqueror
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Just buy them when the complete one comes out.

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YvyB
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Oh I intend to . Definitely .

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Aegon the Conqueror
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So I take it that's a yes?

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WildSeed
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Donal, is it possible to transfer the D& E threads from the " Still Reading " Topic , to this area ???

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YvyB
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Aegon the Conqueror wrote:

So I take it that's a yes?

 Oh I hadn't seen this sorry... Yes please :D



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Macha
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New Dunk and Egg out in May. 

Source. 



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WildSeed
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Also discussed and mentioned in "ASOIAF___Still Reading"  Topic . We discussed Dunk and Egg Tales .

 

I understand that GRRM hasn't limited his number of stories to only 5 tales ( per Ashai Forum Interview )

but many rumored discussions insist on five. It would be nice to have say 10 , in a nice bound version.

The 1st 4 will be bound though, according to GRRM at Comic Con 2012. Can't wait.



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Aegon the Conqueror
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GRRM has stated that there could be as many as ten. Seriosuly Dunk is still very young at the end of 3 and a loooooong way away from becoming Kingsguard.

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YvyB
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Anyone think Dunk is a distant relative of Brienne?

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Macha
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He most certainly is, I'd say. In AFfC Brienne has to re-paint her shield and chooses Ser Duncan's sigil, because she remembers seeing it in her father's armory. Plus, the characters as very similar, in both appearance and conduct.

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YvyB
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I noted the sheild thing straight away , but didn't cross ref. to make sure... thanks Macha

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Aegon the Conqueror
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I'd say she's not a distant relative, but a direct descendant, GRRM said some of Dunk's descendants were in AFFC.

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Andrew
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I just finished the third one last night, very glad I got them. I may or may not have made a squeeling noise when Bloodraven finally showed up. I do love me some Bloodraven.

Do you think by the end of the series (Dunk and Egg, that is) that GRRM will reveal what exactly transpired at Summerhall, or will he avoid going into details? I'd like to know, but at the same time, it's kind of nice having it not explained in detail.

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Macha
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I think so, Andrew. It wouldn't make sense to have all these references without explaining what exactly happened, especially since it involves (supposedly) dragon eggs and most importantly, the two main protagonists of the novellas.
Oh that Bloodraven bit at the end - loved it. More, more!

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YvyB
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I can't get the picture out of my head that Egg lHe Looks like the Airbender !!! he even has the blue arrow!


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YvyB
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Am I right in thinking the feud in Sworn Sword is mentioned in Jaime's chapter's ?

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idkk
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YvyB wrote:

Am I right in thinking the feud in Sworn Sword is mentioned in Jaime's chapter's ?

 The feud mentioned in one of Jamie's chapters in ADWD is the one between the Brackens and the Blackwoods.



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YvyB
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Ah right , thanks idkk.

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WildSeed
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Andrew wrote:

I just finished the third one last night, very glad I got them. I may or may not have made a squeeling noise when Bloodraven finally showed up. I do love me some Bloodraven.

Do you think by the end of the series (Dunk and Egg, that is) that GRRM will reveal what exactly transpired at Summerhall, or will he avoid going into details? I'd like to know, but at the same time, it's kind of nice having it not explained in detail.

 I agree with Macha with " I guess so ". It would appear that GRRM does wish to address many gaps or time elapsed

between ser Dunkin and little Aegon's travels. I certain that Dunk will clarify certain events as he did with the stint

in Dorne ( mentioned in The Sworn Sword and The Mystery Knight ). There's also a great bit a ground to cover from 

Whitehalls to The Night's Watch ( Castle Black ) to King's Landing. I hope George is true to his word of producing

as many as ten. Life is quite interesting from the perspective of a Hedge Knight like ser Duncan the Tall. He is every

bit as reluctant, sensible, endearing and imperfect as any of us. Long live ser Duncan and our reticent little prince.



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YvyB
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Finished Sworn Sword today ... Really good I actually whelled up at one point .... but how funny the farting Septer ? ! !

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Amsterpaul
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I need to read these stories. I just want them all in one book.

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Wait one or two more years.

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Amsterpaul
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no thanks I am a right now tyoe of guy


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And so he spoke and so he spoke

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Aegon the Conqueror
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Well I have all three in my ebook collection, so I can read them as one.

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Amsterpaul
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No thats a good idea but I like paper


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And so he spoke and so he spoke

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Aegon the Conqueror
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I agree the feel of a book in hand is much better, but hey that's the only way to have them all together.

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YvyB
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God Aegon I've forgotten I still have one to read ! Can you believe?

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WildSeed
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YvyB wrote:

Finished Sworn Sword today ... Really good I actually whelled up at one point .... but how funny the farting Septer ? ! !

 Sounds like YvyB needs a book of Limmericks ( the colorful variety). I should refer you to a few references.spiderkill



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TormundsWoman
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I actually love Ser Duncan the Tall and his faithful Targaryan squire. I've borrowed the anthologies during the summer and read his three novellas back to back. And because I wanted to have the two unlikely heroes around some more I've bought also the graphic story The Hedge Knight.

I was quite excited to have The Sworn Sword this week, (was supposed to come out Jan 9 I believe) but it is now pushed for Jan 20th. Still, it is only a couple of weeks. But what is that compared to how long some of us have waited for every single book from ASoIaF?!

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I've been reading the Hedge Knight graphic novel and I love it!!!



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TormundsWoman
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I bought The Sworn Sword and browsed a bit through it. Looks very good.

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Bastard de Hodor
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Ah, Dunk! Our plucky, adventurous, ever-virginous hedge knight! Can't wait until he travels up north for the fourth book. However, he's got to get laid at some point though. He can't remain a noob all of his young life! In all honesty, I thought it was absolutely brilliant of GRRM to pair up a hedge knight from Flea Bottom in KL with a young Targaryen squire. Plus, there's cool insight into the Targaryen lineage, the Blackfyre squabbles and especially Bloodraven, who is one nasty bloke!

Watch out, Bran!

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TormundsWoman
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Bastard de Hodor wrote:

Ah, Dunk! Our plucky, adventurous, ever-virginous hedge knight! Can't wait until he travels up north for the fourth book. However, he's got to get laid at some point though. He can't remain a noob all of his young life! In all honesty, I thought it was absolutely brilliant of GRRM to pair up a hedge knight from Flea Bottom in KL with a young Targaryen squire. Plus, there's cool insight into the Targaryen lineage, the Blackfyre squabbles and especially Bloodraven, who is one nasty bloke!

Watch out, Bran!

 I'm so happy someone actually comments on these short stories! LOL I really liked them as you say because of the insight one gets on all the things regarding Targaryans and their past wars.

As for the bolded Mr. Snow (I won't call you Bastard and there's only one Lord Snow so my options there are limited, you see?) what makes you think the she wolves of Winterfell would tempt Ser Duncan the Tall to do the deed if the Dornishman's wife did not? (Note: metaphorically speaking the Dorne women are ALL the Dornishman's wife)



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Bastard de Hodor
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I guess you can call me anything you like, TW. biggrin  Shall we call Dunk the Tim Tebow of Westeros?

With each novella, GRRM teases us with a bit more Targaryen/Blackfyre lore and tempts Dunk's abstinence a bit. In The Hedge Knight, he had a real chance with Tanselle but that opportunity almost killed him. Personally, I think she was his true love, albeit chaste, that got away (and he's been searching for her ever since). I've been trying to read more about his time as Hand of the King under Aegon (many years later) to see if he ever married...but the maester historians do not say.   

In The Sworn Sword, Dunk should have had a lusty liaison with Rohanne but once again he had to barely escape death when the critical moment arrived. He's a fighter not a lover. Even in the peaceful political fallout of that skirmish, romance possibilities eluded Dunk.

Then in the Mystery Knight, he had a chance encounter with a Fiddler on the roof which could have been unexpectedly interesting but he was thwarted and almost got killed again. Oh, and Dunk should have kicked little Walder Frey's ass when he had the chance, dammit!

Oh, and Bloodraven did look at Dunk suspiciously, did he not?

I say, just give Dunk an chance, GRRM! At this pace, Egg's going to get laid before Dunk. Let Dunk have a dalliance or two before you try to tear him apart! The future Hand must experience more than just a hand...if he is to rule properly!  

 



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Oh, you've done it now, Mr. Snow! That was one chance when you could have changed the terms of this interaction and you did not take advantage LOL I fear you are stuck with Mr. Snow for the duration in the forum from where I'm sitting.

As for how Dunk misses out on each opportunity to get physical knowledge of a woman's body, in layman's terms: sex, I have to say I'm not disappointed at all.

In The Hedge Knight he barely had the time to make Tanselle's acquaintance. He was however taken with the girl and proved several times that the experience was strong. The repetition of "Tanselle too tall but she was not too tall for me" is more than edifying to the matter. I'd call her the one that got away but I wouldn't say it was true love. I think it represented more the idea of finding someone right for him.

As for Rohanne. That was beautifully done. A kiss and her hair. It is after all a step forward for him.

I agree about he kicking of Walder Frey's ass! I cannot believe we were denied a good beating.

Bloodraven: I shall have to reread some parts but I think this is the part where I shall strongly disagree with him being a nasty bloke. I actually like him. Besides if he turns out to be who I think it is I really should read them all again.

And yes, Bloodraven and Dunk the Tall will definitely cross paths again. Dunk becomes Lord Commander of the King's Guard after all and Bloodraven might very well be around if not a Hand for that king.



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Saturday 25th of January 2014 09:25:06 PM

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Bastard de Hodor
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Oh crap...thx for that, TW. I forgot that Dunk became Lord Commander of the KG and wasn't the actual Hand. All apologies.

GRRM shows amazing amount of restraint with Dunk's maturation. I agree...good for him!  Did you think the "Fiddler on the roof" meeting was an intentional inside joke from GRRM? I always have a chuckle about it.

Glad you enjoyed the novellas as well. Really looking forward to those she-wolves! Shall I dare say that we'll have a history of "Hodor" as well within that future narrative?



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Macha
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Bastard de Hodor wrote:
I say, just give Dunk an chance, GRRM! At this pace, Egg's going to get laid before Dunk. Let Dunk have a dalliance or two before you try to tear him apart! The future Hand must experience more than just a hand...if he is to rule properly!  

 Well, if the fourth story which is set in the North ever gets published, there's actually a very good chance of that. Remember one of Bran's visions in ADwD was of a woman kissing a tall knight? Giggity.



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Mr. Snow, I had to take my time in answering you this time. If you wonder why?, it is really because of this:
Shall we call Dunk the Tim Tebow of Westeros?
Came back two times to get the name right and google it. I fear your comparison was lost on me, but I did my best to understand it since you have put "shall WE call", and there were only the two of us in conversation LOL.

If you were looking for a collective input there, you obviously know nothing of me. The best I can promise is to pay close attention next time occasion arises and give you my unbiased opinion regarding how those tights fit on Mr. Tebow, compared to the pants Ser Duncan the Tall wears in the graphic novel! If you'd explain the meaning behind your assertion I would be grateful. I do like these little bits of parallel with real life.

As for the "Fiddler on the roof", no doubt Martin laughed at the thought. Naming the Blackfyre pretender so was a bit of a shout out.

You remarked upon the missed opportunity on Dunk having an "interesting experience" and I did not mention it before. HAHA too shocked someone liked the stories enough to carry a conversation, I suppose. But it is interesting indeed. Yes John did try to persuade him to be "his dog" (as he was planning to take the throne all I can say is: foreshadowing much, Mr. Martin?), and "howl at the moon together" (yes, Daemon was gay) but even there, Ser Duncan refused the overture and was thinking that he might find Tanselle at one point.

As for Hodor: I've got a pic on my computer saying there's a POV chapter with his name on it! One can only hope.



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Bastard de Hodor
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Oh, it's just a simple bit of silliness, TW...nothing to overthink...but thanks for responding. The use of "we" was meant to be entirely rhetorical. Tim Tebow is an American athlete who has been quite vocal in the media about his desire to stay a virgin until marriage. His predicament has become fodder for late night comedians for the last few years, especially since he has become an under-achieving pro-football player. I thought the context was relevant to our discussion, but perhaps not. 



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I like the parallel Mr. Snow! Dunk did eventually promised to stay a virgin as he eventually accepted to become a knight of KG and so far while he has not yet made such vow one can see the similarity. Though it does not look like his virginity has had any impact on how he handles his sword and his performance in a duel, unlike the pro football gentleman. I should keep up to date though with current events, shouldn't I?

I think it is a good parallel and I shall hear nothing of silliness. Also: I tend to take things ad litteram sometimes.



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Sunday 26th of January 2014 01:45:28 PM

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Bastard de Hodor
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Ok, my dear TW, in D&E, BR was presented as the original enforcer/ultra-spy (Varys & LF have nothin’ on him) and his “1000 & 1″ motto and Great Bastard backstory was heavy and cool. His transformation to Treebeard is one of the great mysteries of Westeros and now his “1000 & 1″ motto has monumental meaning and implied manipulation (with the weirnet involved). This mysterious rootman is a crazy and troubling force, with such success with squashing the Blackfyre Rebellion but with such family dysfunction with Bittersteel. How do you see him? What's your take on this man of many generations?

Earlier, you implied that BR might be Hand when Dunk achieves LC of the KG but I think he was imprisoned before then and I believe Aegon sent him to the wall, where he became the LC of the NW for a while.

Then poof! He disappears and the great mystery from LC to Treebeard is formulated...many questions indeed:

1) What actually got him imprisoned at KL? How did he get on the Targ's bad side?
2) Does he have immense conflicts between good and evil, originating from his Blackfyre and Bittersteel battles?
3) What are the similarities between BR, Mance, and Benjen, if any? I think there is more to their defections/journeys than meets the eye.
4) Was he a warg as well? It seems obvious that he was but....if so, was he using his abilities when he was Hand? That would give a huge powerlift in the meaning of "1000 & 1", imho.

We need TWoW and more D&E!!!!

I’m also fascinated at how GoT S4/S5 will depict how something of this eerie and stupendous nature works with the children (albeit very mature youth)! Also, I think every word that BR states will need to consider story elements from D&E, ADwD and TWoW. Expect mysteries, prophesies and supposed secrets to fall like leaves in autumn when BR & the CotF take the stage!

I'm way too impatient with this stuff...but always fun to discuss.

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TormundsWoman
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Bastard de Hodor wrote:

How do you see him? What's your take on this man of many generations?

Mr. Snow, I confess that like some of the characters in The Sworn Sword have always believed that in general, in wars, there’s some good and bad on either side. Martin sure drove the point home in that short story. Reason for which I loved it. 

 

Quick note on that: How nice to hear Jorah mention exactly the above point in the trailer for GoT4! I was delighted. Something about the lure of desiring to see only the bad in the other side but that there’s good and bad on both.

 

To me Bryndan Rivers while truly powerful (huge network of informants) and skilled (with sword and arrow), projected the monstrous image he himself created. He used pyromancers to clean up King’s Landing for crying out loud when the plague or some kind of disease was taking tall in the capital and they did not know what to do with the piling bodies.

 

That right there would have put the fear of God into the small folk. There was no real need to effectively punish. That simple motto “how many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have” did all the work. People behaved or were scared enough to come clean and betray the rest of the Blackfyre pretenders (as seen in The Mystery Knight).

 

I think he was smart, loyal, picked the winning team where he knew he could “rule” as he wanted to. King Areys was supposed to have been bewitched by him but somehow I don’t see that. Why? 

 

Because the next Targaryan who ruled and imprisoned him was Makear I, Egg’s father. He bore him great grudge according to Egg and his own actions because after Baleor (the Hand of the King in the first short story) died, his father choose Bloodraven to be Hand instead of him.

 

I would not be surprised if THAT was the only reason why he was imprisoned. I somehow doubt that if sorcery was all that he got over Aerys he could not do it again with Maekar.

 

But from what Duncan and Egg talk of Maekar he was not a forgiving man and that might have been all it took to put him in a cell. It took great courage for Dunk to speak up and tell the prince that maybe Egg needed to get a clout in the head to become a good prince/man. So no, sorcery was not involved if you ask me.

 

As for Bittersteel/ Bloodraven feud and him being a kinslayer, you've mentioned in two instances:

 

1. That was a Blackwood/Bracken feud lasting a thousand years if what Jaime hears during his roaming of the Riverlands. Besides, that’s how that hill got the name, did it not? Barba’s teats? beacause Aegon left his Blackwood mother for Bittersteel’s Bracken one. I shall take it that they were not really raised as brothers.

 

2. They met upon the Redgrass. It was a fair battle by all accounts. It was war and killed or be killed. I cannot fault him for killing Bittersteel.

 
 
Bastard de Hodor wrote:

Earlier, you implied that BR might be Hand when Dunk achieves LC of the KG but I think he was imprisoned before then and I believe Aegon sent him to the wall, where he became the LC of the NW for a while.

I see you’ve done your homework Mr. Snow! I said he might be around if not a Hand than something else, and that they definitely met afterwards. Alas, I loved A Feast for Crows too much to miss such thing as this. Read it and weep, Mr. Snow!!!!!! LOL Straight from the book from Aemon's memory straight to Sam Tarly's ears aboard the ship before he died.

 

“When last I passed this way, I saw every rock and tree and whitecap, and watched the grey gulls flying in our wake. I was five- and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander.”

 
That was a long journey to the Wall. I think we can safely say they knew each other better by the end of it.
Bastard de Hodor wrote:

I'm way too impatient with this stuff...but always fun to discuss.

 I cannot muster strength to speculate today, Mr Snow. But I do have a mad skill at putting together some crackpot theories and some not so nutty. But it will be for another time. 

 

It IS fun, is it not? 



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Lyanna Stark
Lady Of The Blue Winter Rose
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KK, just ordered Hedge Knight, Sworn Sword, Warriers1 and Dangerous Women. Is this all of the Dunk and Egg or did I miss one/something?

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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
 
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