Macha wrote:

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- Finally, how come I didn't notice Mance and Mel (possibly) had sexy times? Here's Mance talking about his glamour: 

"I feel it when I sleep. Warm against my skin, even through the iron. Soft as a woman's kiss. Your kiss. But sometimes in my dreams it starts to burn, and your lips turn into teeth. " 

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 didn´t catch that either.

I think Melisandre is a fraud but a very dangerous one. And no, Stannis will fall on his own terms. 

Macha wrote:

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Not sure about the fraud thing, but the thought did cross my mind when I was re-reading last night and found that she mentions her powders and how they came in handy, but she admits they're nothing more than tricks (for creating fire, or even lust). However when she talks about herself, she obviously thinks her powers are above those of other priests, and even more powerful at the Wall. So I think she definitely has genuine powers as well - how else would we explain the shadow-baby otherwise?.
Hmmm, Ciaran Hinds and Carice Van Houten. Hmmmm.

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 not saying she´s a fraud because  has no powers, I think she recently realized that her powers are real  (I do remember what you said from ADWD), but to where she is now, she  has come without them. Makes sense?

andrea wrote:

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Macha wrote:

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Not sure about the fraud thing, but the thought did cross my mind when I was re-reading last night and found that she mentions her powders and how they came in handy, but she admits they're nothing more than tricks (for creating fire, or even lust). However when she talks about herself, she obviously thinks her powers are above those of other priests, and even more powerful at the Wall. So I think she definitely has genuine powers as well - how else would we explain the shadow-baby otherwise?.
Hmmm, Ciaran Hinds and Carice Van Houten. Hmmmm.

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 not saying she´s a fraud because  has no powers, I think she recently realized that her powers are real  (I do remember what you said from ADWD), but to where she is now, she  has come without them. Makes sense?

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 Agree with both of these theories.  She's thinking she should have brought more powders, but there is more to her than that. I have yet to see her save anyone yet, Thoros saves Beric how many times? The witch at their camp has the "future sight", not sure exactly what she is, we'll see how she deals with Jon.  I'll form more of an opinion after that.

Macha wrote:

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Ok, some things that stood out in ADwD so far:

- Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths.  

When Jon asks her about it, she claims that the towers represent Eastwatch, though she dismisses it at first - she's seen Eastwatch and it didn't look like that. I know there are many theories regarding these towers, but I'd go for the obvious choice in this case, which is Pyke. Earthquake, tsunami, kraken? Take your pick. Aeron and Damphair are certifiably nuts so I guess anything's possible. 

- "...shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing."

She concludes that the skulls represent death, and that seems pretty spot on, however I found the "skulls that turned to mist" bit interesting because...what else turnes to mist? Answer: the White Walker that Sam killed in ASoS. She also sees skulls all around Snow, and the easiest explanation for that is that she sees his assassins, but she mentions "a thousand skulls", which seems to be somewhat similar to "a thousand red eyes" that obviously stand for Bloodraven. I don't know how this all could fit together but I find this whole Jon&Mel - Bran&Bloodraven double date really promising, in terms of plot. 

The "bodies locked together in lust" bit seems a bit out of place, I guess the obvious interpretation would be Dany & Daario but I don't care enough to be bothered.  

- Also, I didn't catch that on my  first read, but Melisandre literally bleeds while gazing into the flames in her first chapter. 

Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking.  

She mentions later that her sacrifices have been great in order to gain her powers, and that preserving Rattleshirt's glamour while he burned in Mance's place nearly burned her alive. Somehow, I don't think she has that much to live. If she does ressurect Jon somehow, I think that'll be her last act. 

- Finally, how come I didn't notice Mance and Mel (possibly) had sexy times? Here's Mance talking about his glamour: 

"I feel it when I sleep. Warm against my skin, even through the iron. Soft as a woman's kiss. Your kiss. But sometimes in my dreams it starts to burn, and your lips turn into teeth. " 

Those crazy kids. 

PS: Melisandre only has one "S". 

-- Edited by Macha on Wednesday 12th of September 2012 10:20:47 AM

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I agree with you on the instances when Mel bleeds. Somehow they are all connected to her making a sacrifice, or something prompts her to bleed. I read a very sound and textual evidence based theory on the Fire and Ice forum it was, I think, where the person proposes that the "Red Star Bleding" will actually be Mel herself, crying tears of blood when Jon is ressurected. The basis of the theory is that Mel is actually the daughter of Shiera Seastar (remember her?) and Bloodraven (gives alot of textual evidence for support, plus the time frame works out). So she herself has the Kingsblood needed to be sacrificed. The nine dead rangers she sees staring with Red Eyes is actually her misinterpretation of the nine Weirwood trees where Jon gave his vows, the proposed place of ressurection. The Red star connection is made because of her eyes that are constantly described as red stars. So it will actually be the red stars (her eyes) that bleed when the moment of Azor Ahai's rebirth comes. I am giving a summary here of a larger and more complex but convincing theory, but this ties in well with my own theory (and others') that suggest that Jon will spend a certain amount of time inside Ghost, where he will discover his true identity with the help of Bran and the Weirwood network, before being resurrected. Another interesting hint someone pointed out, is the fact that the bodies put into the ice cells by Jon in ADWD stay dead because they CAN'T turn inside the Wall, which hopefully means, Jon's dead body won't turn either if he is buried in the ice. But what happens to his body will largely depend on who takes charge at the Wall after the massacre. Off topic, but had to post. And I could be completely wrong, ofcourse :)

TormundsWoman wrote:

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To use a ASoIaF famous line: Seven help me, Mags!

Can you pass me the link to this huge theory (you can send me a PM if you don't want to go all off topic). I love this stuff! Maybe they'll convince me Jon is NOT suffering from a little bit of death by repeated stabbing. I supposed him to be saved by Melisandre; though if I were her I'd let him suffer a bit for not trusting her (can the dead's soul suffer though? existential questions...)

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All good questions of course

There's this one: https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CFQQrAIwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fasoiaf.westeros.org%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2F96824-sbm-mel-the-red-star-bleeding-melony-seastar-part-2-has-been-added-on-pg9%2F&ei=MvDsUvTDNYK3hQfn0oGwBQ&usg=AFQjCNF70k4gx6FhiGvctad8B0_watwJyg&sig2=dVBH9utDi3kbJwwKsqqu_A&bvm=bv.60444564,d.Yms 

And then this one, which is more particularly about Jon and his relationship with Ghost and what this foreshadows for both of them, but also related to Mel in some way: https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CFMQrAIwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fasoiaf.westeros.org%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2F99729-jon-snows-fate-ghost-ice-cell%2F&ei=MvDsUvTDNYK3hQfn0oGwBQ&usg=AFQjCNFna6k_lE25AlwR-u8wCvJuxJ-BuA&sig2=1xZbAOK8GI7yXHdzApUQyQ&bvm=bv.60444564,d.Yms

Enjoy

Mags Giantsbabe wrote:

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She has only one chapter in aDwD, and it forms interesting parallels with the prologue. The rest of the time you can see her from Jon's pov. 

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 That's actually what I meant when I said Mel's chapters, but came out wrong . All chapters where she shows up, not really only her POV one.

My Kindle highlights for Melisandre chapters are huge. That's not only because I highlighted the visions or the interaction with Jon Snow, but because I really like her so everything I thought was important about her is either underlined or having notes. But I might just as well read the whole thing than take a look at all my ideas, because they are too chaotic.