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Topic: L.S. *Book Spoilers!*

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DonalNoyesArm
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RE: L.S. *Book Spoilers!*
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jentario wrote:

My bet is that she isn't in the episode, even though I really hope she is.

 Don't jinx it! calmyotits



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Rygar
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No LS No LS No LS No LS

It's the silliest thing ever. Needs to be cut. I'll cringe if not.

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andrea
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Rygar wrote:

No LS No LS No LS No LS

It's the silliest thing ever. Needs to be cut. I'll cringe if not.

 I´m with Napoleon here.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Silly book things do not equal silly TV show things!

grump




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Lyanna Stark
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Rygar wrote:

No LS No LS No LS No LS

It's the silliest thing ever. Needs to be cut. I'll cringe if not.

 Cringe? If she is not in there, I will run down my street screaming! freakout



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DonalNoyesArm
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Some folks are saying since they didnt show Lady Catelyn in the "previously on" preview that means that she is not in the finale.
Methinks they don't wanna telegraph her coming back, as to not spoil the surprise by giving savvy unsullied any clues, I still have a good feeling she will be there.

Al! Our showdown has arrived! waterdancer

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Al Swearengen
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I am just gonna throw this out there, I've been finding Michelle Fairley quite sexy on 24. She really suits playing a villain.

creeperfinger

 



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sid
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Welp, any hope in season 5?


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DonalNoyesArm
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Welp, shit....looks like I owe Al 5 bucks!

I do think she will show up next season...she is key in Brienne's storyline.



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Macha
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sid wrote:

Welp, any hope in season 5?

 Aww, sorry Sid. 

I think there is hope, probably depending also on the Brotherhood's relevance later on. I thought it would be strange to bring them back now with LS since there was no buildup this season at all, but maybe they simply wanted to delay it so they could have more time to expand on it in S5. My next best guess is the opening of S5E1.



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TormundsWoman
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I really hoped. But it was not to be. I feel like Sid because the Freys need killing. Also because Jaime and Brienne need Catelyn. At least from a bookstory perspective. Who knows...

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Macha
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"It was never on the docket to do this season — ever. The [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] have such a challenge adapting the books into a really focused television experience. It’s very hard, it’s very complicated, it’s much harder then they’ve been given credit for, I think, and they do a brilliant job. But to bring back Michelle Fairley, one of the greatest actresses around, to be a zombie for a little while — and just kill people? It is really sort of, what are we doing with that? How does it play into the whole story in a way that we’re really going to like? It just didn’t end up being a part of what was going to happen this season. And finally one reason, in case you didn’t notice, a lot happens this season … To add that in is something they opted out of. But what’s funny is that it was never going to be in the season, yet it took off on the Internet like it was going to happen." - Alex Graves

And now we know.



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Tir Airgid
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I wish they'd come out and say one way or another. They'd avoid a lot of backlash in the long run that way, and they could still be vague enough so as not to spoil the unsullied.

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Cary Storm
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Tir Airgid wrote:

I wish they'd come out and say one way or another. They'd avoid a lot of backlash in the long run that way, and they could still be vague enough so as not to spoil the unsullied.

 I said this at WiCNet: Why spend the effort in developing the Thoros-revives-Beric storyline if you didn't have an endgoal in mind? And Fairley has still been evasive enough. I think D&D just need to figure out how to do it without making her a revenge-zombie. 



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Macha
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Cary Storm wrote:

 I said this at WiCNet: Why spend the effort in developing the Thoros-revives-Beric storyline if you didn't have an endgoal in mind?

 Hmm could also be because they need it for Jon's stabbing later on, hence Mel's presence at their camp.



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Rygar
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Even GRRM said LS was a mistake. I'd run with that if I was D&D and leave it out.

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sid
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Rygar wrote:

Even GRRM said LS was a mistake. I'd run with that if I was D&D and leave it out.

 

Source?  Never heard of this before.  Much disappoint.



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Cary Storm
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If Cat had only loved Jon Snow, then Lady Stoneheart would have never been cut.

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Al Swearengen
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Even though I am not a fan of Stoneheart I am a bit miffed by her exclusion. Like someone previously said they spent time on Thoros talking about the kiss of life. Plus they went full fantasy mode in Bran's scene with the Child of The Forest and those badass Skeleton warriors so why wimp out on zombie Cat?

Maybe she's been saved for next season but frankly at this point why bother? I'd rather see more time dedicated to Dorne and the Greyjoys instead.



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sid
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Al Swearengen wrote:

Even though I am not a fan of Stoneheart I am a bit miffed by her exclusion. Like someone previously said they spent time on Thoros talking about the kiss of life. Plus they went full fantasy mode in Bran's scene with the Child of The Forest and those badass Skeleton warriors so why wimp out on zombie Cat?

Maybe she's been saved for next season but frankly at this point why bother? I'd rather see more time dedicated to Dorne and the Greyjoys instead.

 I totally agree - what's the point now.  People think LS's inclusion means she'd take up too much screentime - when in fact it'd be just like the books - allow for one or two solid scenes with her doing vengeance.

 

For example - Yara's scene in S03E10.  Oh sweet awesome setup...oh wait epic fail in S4.  Man talk about missed opportunity.



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Al Swearengen
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sid wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

Even though I am not a fan of Stoneheart I am a bit miffed by her exclusion. Like someone previously said they spent time on Thoros talking about the kiss of life. Plus they went full fantasy mode in Bran's scene with the Child of The Forest and those badass Skeleton warriors so why wimp out on zombie Cat?

Maybe she's been saved for next season but frankly at this point why bother? I'd rather see more time dedicated to Dorne and the Greyjoys instead.

 I totally agree - what's the point now.  People think LS's inclusion means she'd take up too much screentime - when in fact it'd be just like the books - allow for one or two solid scenes with her doing vengeance.

 

For example - Yara's scene in S03E10.  Oh sweet awesome setup...oh wait epic fail in S4.  Man talk about missed opportunity.

Exactly it's not like Stoneheart would feature in every episode. All we really need is her attempting to hang Brienne/Pod and perhaps show her getting some vengeance on some Frey's.

Makes me wonder why the hell they invested so much time in Thoros and Beric.

I did enjoy Arya sailing off to Braavos but just think how more shocking it would of been ending with Stoneheart.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Woody = D&D teehee

10373680_10154276518000319_4829558772000653398_n.jpg



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Al Swearengen wrote:

Even though I am not a fan of Stoneheart I am a bit miffed by her exclusion. Like someone previously said they spent time on Thoros talking about the kiss of life. Plus they went full fantasy mode in Bran's scene with the Child of The Forest and those badass Skeleton warriors so why wimp out on zombie Cat?

Maybe she's been saved for next season but frankly at this point why bother?  

 Yep, she's gone.  They won't have her.  That ship's sailed, and with it they took my (Stone) heart.



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
Dolan
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She can still show up next season though, i mean where's Brienne going now? I guess the riverlands, still looking for Arya and Sansa.

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JapieQ
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I'd be fucking lying if I didn't want this scene in goddamnit. I don't really care for the Alex Graves argument, it seems they had a bunch of pointless stupid scenes so why not add one that a lot of fans actually want? You guys better not throw some arguments my way, BECAUSE ALL I WANT IS DEAD FREYS HANGING FROM TREES ALL OVER FUCKING WESTEROSgrump.



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Al Swearengen
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The more I think about it, the more I think not utilizing Stoneheart was a missed opportunity. Just think about the amount of buzz ending with her face would of created throughout the internet and media.

I don't buy that it would of been cheesy, the audience have accepted Beric, Wights, Giants and Melisandre giving birth to a shadow baby.



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TormundsWoman
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Pretty sure folks have already read this but it will bump the thread . Plus Ry will be heartbroken with England leaving the World Cup and Rangers loosing. He needs a piece of good news. spiderkill

insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/25/michelle-fairley-24-lady-stoneheart/



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Wednesday 25th of June 2014 02:16:10 PM

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jentario
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Thing is that it's exactly what she would say even if she was in.
It would be nice to have an official, straightforward confirmation from D&D.

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Rygar
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dance

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Macha
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Actually, I don't see any ambiguity in that interview. Now I can say I think she is definitely cut. And although I'm sorry for the fans that wanted her in, and for myself for not having the chance to see Michelle on the show, I can only say.....YESSSSS. If they cut something this big because they feel it would alter the story, then I am 101% sold on this show. They might loose some book fans, but I think they're definitely doing the right thing in the long run.

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Al Swearengen
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Macha wrote:

Actually, I don't see any ambiguity in that interview. Now I can say I think she is definitely cut. And although I'm sorry for the fans that wanted her in, and for myself for not having the chance to see Michelle on the show, I can only say.....YESSSSS. If they cut something this big because they feel it would alter the story, then I am 101% sold on this show. They might loose some book fans, but I think they're definitely doing the right thing in the long run.

 how+dare+you!.gif



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Rygar
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Blackfish, Beric, and Thoros taking the role of LS is the BEST THING EVER.

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jentario
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^No Rygar, they'll just have Brienne run in with Sansa. The BWB story is scrapped. That's why Jamie is going to Dorne. Brienne and Sansa are both at TWOW material since their AFFC material was mostly finished or cut by the end of season 4. They will meet and do some TWOW stuff.

The show is doing its own thing now. No more bets. We're all Unsullied. Whose to say if they even cast Aegon or a single Greyjoy.



-- Edited by jentario on Wednesday 25th of June 2014 04:22:38 PM

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Al Swearengen
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Yes, lets all celebrate D & D doing their own thing. I mean David has such quality work on his record, Troy and the masterpiece that was X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

MV5BMTAzNjQzMTEzMzJeQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU3MDkxNjA4NDc@._V1_SY317_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg



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Atreyu
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Either D&D is laying a serious smokescreen, or UnCat the ZOMBIE is mos def cut from GOT. I am reading some more gnashing of the teeth about how INTEGRAL and NECESSARY it was to the story. It wasn't. UnCat added next to nothing to the saga other than it sent Brienne on a walking tour of Westeros to do ... something I've already forgotten. Get bitten? I dunno. UnCat was dumb and it was dumb for Martin to have included it.

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jentario
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Atreyu wrote:

Either D&D is laying a serious smokescreen, or UnCat the ZOMBIE is mos def cut from GOT. I am reading some more gnashing of the teeth about how INTEGRAL and NECESSARY it was to the story. It wasn't. UnCat added next to nothing to the saga other than it sent Brienne on a walking tour of Westeros to do ... something I've already forgotten. Get bitten? I dunno. UnCat was dumb and it was dumb for Martin to have included it.

Well, she makes Brienne fetch Jamie for her, which is sure to be an important and interesting meet-up in early TWOW. Also, she puts Brienne's character in a real test- this time she really can't choose the honorable side since both choices are shit- either die unjustly and see the innocent Podrick hang, or betray the one you love (who is just as innocent) and bring him to Stoneheart. I don't think they can recapture that with any other character, since Brienne only swore an oath to Cat.

 

Obviously, they could skip the whole thing, but to say it has no effect on the story is a bit premature. It definitely seems like it will be important in the books. That's not to say the show can't write around it, though.

 

I personally like the Stoneheart plot (one of the only things to like in AFFC IMO).



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sid
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Rygar wrote:

dance

Huzzah muthafuckers! Smoke a bowl!

 

This, except I loved Lady Stoneheart.

To say it's a crucial part of the Brienne storyline is not really true when you realize they could just write some other character in to judge her for the failure to save Catelyn...

HOWEVER

They have already shown Beric as well as Thoros (and I love both actors in S3, well done) and they could just as easily take over the tribulation of Brienne at a future date.

This is the true definition of "the show is not the books", because I remember reading the craziness of the second half of ASOS and to have the epilogue totally throw me for a loop was impressive to say the least.  The IDEA of LS was what got me...the personification of justice for the Starks and not necessarily the execution of such as the chapters with her and the BwB are so toned down after the epilogue.

So to sum up my thoughts...I love the idea of Lady Stoneheart because Michelle Fairley was a perfect Catelyn, however the deus ex machina of the role could just as easily been written to someone else. 

Does the HBO show need Lady Stoneheart?  No.   But does it do the books justice?  FUCK no.

 

The end.

 



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jentario
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Well, even if D&D are doing fuck all with the show at least they're doing more than GRRM

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jentario
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sid wrote:
Rygar wrote:

dance

Huzzah muthafuckers! Smoke a bowl!

 

This, except I loved Lady Stoneheart.

To say it's a crucial part of the Brienne storyline is not really true when you realize they could just write some other character in to judge her for the failure to save Catelyn...

HOWEVER

They have already shown Beric as well as Thoros (and I love both actors in S3, well done) and they could just as easily take over the tribulation of Brienne at a future date.

This is the true definition of "the show is not the books", because I remember reading the craziness of the second half of ASOS and to have the epilogue totally throw me for a loop was impressive to say the least.  The IDEA of LS was what got me...the personification of justice for the Starks and not necessarily the execution of such as the chapters with her and the BwB are so toned down after the epilogue.

So to sum up my thoughts...I love the idea of Lady Stoneheart because Michelle Fairley was a perfect Catelyn, however the deus ex machina of the role could just as easily been written to someone else. 

Does the HBO show need Lady Stoneheart?  No.   But does it do the books justice?  FUCK no.

 

The end.

 

 By that logic every role can be scrapped and given to other characters. Who needs Jon Snow when you can give Grenn more to do!



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Dolan
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I REFUUUUUSEEE.....

TO BELIEEEEVE.....


Ok, she's probably cut, specially now with Jaime going to Dorne - still wanna see how they'll handle that one story arch next season... - but to me that means they'll either blend her role with Beric or just kill Brienne outright.

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jentario
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The show is doing it's own thing.
Will Sam even go to Oldtown?
Will Tyrion even meet the Griffs?
What the hell will Brienne and Jamie be doing without Stoneheart?
What the hell will Bran and Sansa be doing?
Will we get any Greyjoy buisness from the books at all?

I think season 5 is the point where the show branches off completely. It will follow up in a few storylines (Tyrion going to Dany, Arya in Braavos, Stannis vs the Boltons) but there's no guarantee the endgame will be the same. Maybe D&D don't want to finish GRRM's story for him?

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Al Swearengen
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Well if you've been watching 24

Spoiler



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TormundsWoman
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That's bad for her and good for me! teehee

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Rygar
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Frey's beware of Black Swansa!

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Lyanna Stark
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KK, just read that EW Interview (I know, late as usual), so can we talk about her on chat now, since it's not a spoiler any more? 



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
jentario
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Lyanna Stark wrote:

KK, just read that EW Interview (I know, late as usual), so can we talk about her on chat now, since it's not a spoiler any more? 

 Not yet (after season 5 at least) but probably not ever since it's a book spoiler and BaS might choose to read the books at some point (imagine her surprise).



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Rygar
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What interview? Please don't tell me LS is still a possibility ?

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TormundsWoman
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jentario wrote:
Lyanna Stark wrote:

KK, just read that EW Interview (I know, late as usual), so can we talk about her on chat now, since it's not a spoiler any more? 

 Not yet (after season 5 at least) but probably not ever since it's a book spoiler and BaS might choose to read the books at some point (imagine her surprise).

 Oh, this ties in with what I was saying in the Comic Con thread

Why would David and Dan refuse to mention her cut from ASOS ending? While they explained why Tysha is missing and why Tyrion and Jaime are on the best of terms even now in the show. That was a pretty big change for me.



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Atreyu
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TormundsWoman wrote:
Why would David and Dan refuse to mention her cut from ASOS ending?

There's no way to sugarcoat "LS is the dumbest thing we ever read so we cut it out."

 

Or they could say that LS adds nothing significant to the narrative and reanimation has already been established. But I like the former explanation better.

 

We do not know for sure if LS is cut. I hope so.



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Dolan
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TormundsWoman wrote:
jentario wrote:
Lyanna Stark wrote:

KK, just read that EW Interview (I know, late as usual), so can we talk about her on chat now, since it's not a spoiler any more? 

 Not yet (after season 5 at least) but probably not ever since it's a book spoiler and BaS might choose to read the books at some point (imagine her surprise).

 Oh, this ties in with what I was saying in the Comic Con thread

Why would David and Dan refuse to mention her cut from ASOS ending? While they explained why Tysha is missing and why Tyrion and Jaime are on the best of terms even now in the show. That was a pretty big change for me.

 did they explained that?



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