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Topic: The Borgias

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Asha Karina
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RE: The Borgias
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I'm so proud of being a minor voice (that's my life curse) , i really prefer the Euroborgia show, maybe because i'm an european, don't know. Historical facts respect and Fontana's print make it better in my opinion. And fuck i must have a sex appeal crush on Mark Ryder too... I find you quite unfair towards the actors, Glen playing Savonarole and John Bradley playing a Medicis are really good, the Farnese brother and sister too, and they're not the only ones, the cardinal gallery can play !


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Cary Storm
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Asha Karina wrote:

I'm so proud of being a minor voice (that's my life curse) , i really prefer the Euroborgia show, maybe because i'm an european, don't know. Historical facts respect and Fontana's print make it better in my opinion. And fuck i must have a sex appeal crush on Mark Ryder too... I find you quite unfair towards the actors, Glen playing Savonarole and John Bradley playing a Medicis are really good, the Farnese brother and sister too, and they're not the only ones, the cardinal gallery can play !

 See Macha!  Another Euroborgia fan! John Doman is incredible as Pope Alexander. And sam makes it so much worth it.  And the girl playing Lucrezia is so awful I can't look away.   



-- Edited by Cary Storm on Thursday 11th of April 2013 09:19:03 AM

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Lyanna Stark
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I am very late to the party. Have just finished S1 Episode 6 (?) where the King of France has agreed to attack. I admit, and I am sorry for it, that I know nothing of Borgia history. I am a Protestant and so, we don't know of that part of Roman history. However, love this program for it's entertainment purposes only. I do like Jeremy Irons in other work he's done (Kingdom of Heaven), it seems he does very little in this. His presence alone seems to me to be a big part of his role. Love, love Lucretia, she is a doll.

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Cary Storm
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Asha, after seeing Canal+ Season 2 site for Borgia, the huge disparity in accents makes a lot of sense now. If the show was originally meant to be dubbed in various languages, then it doesn't matter so much how bad the English is for the actors involved. But you also don't get the benefit of Isolda Dychauk's hysterically poor delivery of lines.

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Asha Karina
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YEK YEK YEK, you don't get it ser, the V.F (or french version) is a nightmare, the Ryder's voice is awful so i use to watch it in english otherwise i hang myself ...And for little Isolda, i'm certain that she is bad directed, maybe i'm totally wrong but the hysterical Lucrecia seems to be a key in the scenario . I have to add that season 2 is really going into the wall (direct translation from a french expression "aller dans le mur" wich means failing to death !), character's reactions are caricatures (yeah i want to fuck you sistah, no i'm in love with that chick i saw half an hour, i'm in love with each cock passing throught the door oh no i have to confess my sins, i love my child/ i don't care anymore, hysteria , hysteria and no story that keep the line...).

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Macha
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Nobody watching S3 yet? Don't leave me alone!

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Tir Airgid
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i haven't started yet, i tend to watch them after game of thrones is over...

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Lyanna Stark
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Macha wrote:

Nobody watching S3 yet? Don't leave me alone!

 I have watched S3, episide 2, so I am as far as I can get without having Showtime. Still, Lucretia is my fav, just adore her.  Glad that her mother got more time in the series as it went along.  I like Joann Whaley (formerly Kilmer).



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
andrea
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Macha wrote:

Nobody watching S3 yet? Don't leave me alone!

 yes saw it, 2 episodes, have to watch again because memory but you know the whole Lannister romance... ugh, the hysteria. Not liking where is going. Episode 2 tho, Jeremy Irons had a spark again for a few seconds. Oh and the actor playing the Sforza cardinal, never remember his name, is really something.



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Macha
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Soooo...watched ep. 1.

Not bad, but I could have done without the slow motion and lament abuse at the beginning.
Della Rovere gets freed, just like that? Mmmmright. Who's that dude plotting the asassination, with the really bad haircut? God, the wigs are horrible in this series.
I'm starting to like Cardinal Sforza (I see you, Laurie). 



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Cary Storm
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Haven't gotten into it yet. Will have to start downloading it online.

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Tir Airgid
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So i finally caved in and watched the first two episodes last night. And what always strikes me is how esthetically pleasing it is. Every frame feels like a renaissance painting, it's such a pleasure to just sit there and stare at it that I forgive many of its missgivings. The acting and the script seem no better or worse than last season to me. Mr Tir says that the problem with this show is that every scene's gotta be a drama, there's no levity to give contrast, to add impact, and to help you care for the characters. That said, I still care for them. My favourite continues to be the Borgia assassin, can't remember his name now. I was thinking his character shares a lot of traits with Sandor Clegane, even the kind of appeal it inspires. Loved the scene with Vanozza, Jeremy Irons almost came alive (as an actor I mean you dirty perverts) for it.

@maliti, the wigs aren't all bad.. the women's ones are gorgeous!



-- Edited by Tir Airgid on Friday 26th of April 2013 05:26:00 AM

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Macha
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The show is definitely beautiful, but after GoT it just seems too...clean, you know?
That incest scene came out of nowhere. Yes, they hinted they might go there in previous seasons, that's not what I meant. It just seemed so random. They've hardly talked these season and BAM! "I'll just wait here naked for you because I need to get laid pronto." Really?

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andrea
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Tir Airgid wrote:

Loved the scene with Vanozza, Jeremy Irons almost came alive (as an actor I mean you dirty perverts) for it.

@maliti, the wigs aren't all bad.. the women's ones are gorgeous!

 chipi, it is Machuska who don´t like the wigs I just didn´t notice.

And yes, I loved that scene too, it´s the one I was talking when I said Jeremy Irons had a spark of the genius he was again.

Can someone explain to me what is happening to that guy? He´s like puckering all the time, the mess of his voice. It´s so fucking puzzling.



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andrea
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Macha wrote:

That incest scene came out of nowhere. Yes, they hinted they might go there in previous seasons, that's not what I meant. It just seemed so random. They've hardly talked these season and BAM! "I'll just wait here naked for you because I need to get laid pronto." Really?

that scene felt like "we should shoot that incest scene some day right?" "yeah bummer, let´s do it now" while some good screenplayer was crying senseless in the back.



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Macha
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I just can't with Lucrezia. eyeroll Are they writing her as a spoiled brat on purpose? Because that's exactly what she sounds like every time she opens her mouth.



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 29th of April 2013 05:32:24 PM

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Lyanna Stark
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Wow just watched Episode 4! Lucrezia will have her revenge I would wager gold dragons on it, hehehe, you go girl .

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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
Lyanna Stark
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Wow! Episode 5 took a page from GOT! Amazing.

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Cary Storm
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Asha Karina wrote:

YEK YEK YEK, you don't get it ser, the V.F (or french version) is a nightmare, the Ryder's voice is awful so i use to watch it in english otherwise i hang myself ...And for little Isolda, i'm certain that she is bad directed, maybe i'm totally wrong but the hysterical Lucrecia seems to be a key in the scenario . I have to add that season 2 is really going into the wall (direct translation from a french expression "aller dans le mur" wich means failing to death !), character's reactions are caricatures (yeah i want to fuck you sistah, no i'm in love with that chick i saw half an hour, i'm in love with each cock passing throught the door oh no i have to confess my sins, i love my child/ i don't care anymore, hysteria , hysteria and no story that keep the line...).

 Okay, just saw S02 E01 of Euroborgia, which is now available on Netflix. It wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Okay, the awful first scene with Pope Alexander seeing his 2 dead sons (2 dead sons? Who is the non-Juan one?) and stabbing them upon which the hallucination is revealed and their actually poor priests with the unfortunate chance of being in the wrong place during the wrong hallucination was over the top. 

But Isolde's English is getting much better than before. 



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Cary Storm
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Okay, Episode S02 E02; and I still like Fontana's Borgia better than The Borgias. You see, Asha, the poor character reactions and caricatures are no worse than The Borgias :)

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Macha
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Coming back to Showtime's Borgias...what the hell just happened with Benito? Such poor writing. You start building him up as this big threat, and the next time he's on screen you just kill him in two seconds. WTF.
Why am I still watching this? With the exception of Rodrigo's poisoning there was never any real threat for any of the characters that wasn't resolved in two episodes at most. And Lucrezia puts another king on the throne in just one episode, after going the Stupid Ned route with the man who could simply poison the whole household? Come on, enough is enough.
At least they managed to make an interesting character out of Micheletto.



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Tir Airgid
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Micheletto the borgia's Hound is my favourite character by FAAAR. I agree as well that this season Lucrezia is sounding most of the time like a spoilt brat. But Cesare now out of those godawful red robes is making my heart race

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Tir Airgid
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I am enjoying this season better than the previous one. I think Jeremy Iron's acting is improving and I just LOVE micheletto.
I just saw ep8 and I actually liked very much, bar that awful scene where they're ready to bring down a mountain on them but they dare not shoot at an exposed target. What rails me is that it'd been easy to fix if Cesare had kept his army there. It wouldn't have been expensive, c'm on! They just need a couple of guys standing there in uniform and the whole thing at least would've been a bit more credible. But yes, they have downton abbey syndrom, where plot is like a hot potato they need to throw quickly away... like it was just getting interesting with Lucrezia in Napoli when they just blurt to her, oh, you're our prisoner cause I'm evil. But am... yes, sure, bring in a witch with poison expertise. wut?? But even so, I really enjoyed it. I guess I'm easily dazzled by the beautiful trappings.



-- Edited by Tir Airgid on Wednesday 29th of May 2013 08:08:52 AM

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“Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.”

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Macha
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That's it, I'm switching to Euroborgias. The writing in this show is simply terrible.
The whole fake shroud & assassination attempt lasted what? 3 minutes! And people complain about Littlefinger's teleporting device? Clearly they haven't seen Cesare's. Somebody please tell these people they *can* create plotlines that last for more than an episode.

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Cary Storm
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Macha wrote:

That's it, I'm switching to Euroborgias. The writing in this show is simply terrible.
The whole fake shroud & assassination attempt lasted what? 3 minutes! And people complain about Littlefinger's teleporting device? Clearly they haven't seen Cesare's. Somebody please tell these people they *can* create plotlines that last for more than an episode.

That is one of my BIGGEST GRIPES about The Borgias. The storylines that last for minutes on single episodes.  Fontana's Borgia has ARCS.  

I was rather pleased by something in S02E05 of €Borgia. Cesare tells Lucrezia that she can't marry Alfonso of Aragon because he loves her. And then for some awkward pause you think they're going to have an awful Lannister moment. But then Lucrezia turns around and says, "Well good, then my marriage to Alfonso is punishment to you for murdernig (insert fictional father of Lucrezia's illegitimate child here)"

And then there was this awesome scene that the episode finished on (this is just as Cesare has given up his Cardinalship): 

cesare-golden-knight.png

Golden knight remind you of anyone? Only this guy is *not* fucking his sister.



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Asha Karina
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I agree with the fact that Fontana's Borgias has arcs but they seem quite fuzzy and moving. The character's logic seem far and far away ...

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Tir Airgid
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OK, just saw ep9 of the Borgias and I take back all the good vibes. it was awful Why do I allow myself to get carried away thinking it's gonna be good now?

well, in other words, it might be the last episode ever next week so... I'm gonna miss Cesare and his leather pants.

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Macha
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Wait, ep9 is out already? And it hasn't been renewed for another season? Thank you for sparing me the temptation, Showtime. I'll just continue with Euroborgia, though it's so brutal it's already giving me nightmares. derp



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Cary Storm
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Euroborgia S02E06
Cardinal Sforza: "You do find the prettiest secretaries, Cardinal Della Rovary"

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Now I know why Euroborgia is so violent. Tom Fontana = Executive Producer of Oz. Go figure.

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Lyanna Stark
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Just finished S3. Thank you Tir, I am forever in your debt huggs
Micheletto could not believe it.

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YvyB
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The daughter was in season three of Robin Hood! Aw she was so sweet ... made Sir Guy go all ... um... nice !



-- Edited by YvyB on Friday 7th of June 2013 08:32:03 PM

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Lyanna Stark
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False alarm, have not seen episode 10 yet. Bad Lyanna, Bad!

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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
Lyanna Stark
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Al Swearengen wrote:

I am madly in love with Holly boobs

 I know right? She is flawless.



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
Macha
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Al Swearengen wrote:

The frustrating thing for me is the show was getting better and better with each season, it felt like they were hitting their stride during season 3.

 For realz??

...I thought it only got worse.



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Macha
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My jaw really hit the floor on that one. I still can't believe they used it, seemed weird to do that on a 'serious' show.

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Cary Storm
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Macha wrote:

My jaw really hit the floor on that one. I still can't believe they used it, seemed weird to do that on a 'serious' show.

 SRS? LOL.

Anyway, I would rather see John Donan as Pope Alexander full-frontal naked 30 more times in (Euro) Borgia than endure another season of The Borgias and Jeremy Irons' shallow acting.

 

 



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Macha
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Cary Storm wrote:
Anyway, I would rather see John Donan as Pope Alexander full-frontal naked 30 more times in (Euro) Borgia than endure another season of The Borgias and Jeremy Irons' shallow acting.

All of this, with a cherry on top. Despite its huge flaws, EuroBorgia did many things right. I'd say casual, most of the time off-putting nudity was one of those very right things.



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Cary Storm
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It's from the creator of HBO's Oz. It's produced by Canal+. I think that's why nobody has the same accent. Because they expect all the voices to be dubbed anyway.

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This one. It aired in Europe about the same time as the other one. It's a beautiful trainwreck of terrible acting and all the accents you can imagine, maybe except Jamaican. But it's more historically accurate, and the violence is done very.....well? In a "can't stand to watch it" sort of way. 



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Cary Storm
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Al Swearengen wrote:

Oz so that means a lot of dong shots then....

 Not nearly as many as Oz. Plus a lot more cooch.  But it has all the gratuitous violence! 



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Macha
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If you look back on this thread, I think half of it is just Cary finding out about this show and ending up converting us to watch it.

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Cary Storm
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Just make sure you stick it out through the first season. It really gets better the second season. Even Lucrezia's acting gets better. Though her accent never does.

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Macha
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Gina McKee is one fabulous woman. You thinking Lady Dustin? Great pick, though I'd go for someone a bit older.
As for a François Arnaud - Kit Harrington switch....LOL NO. And I'll stop at that, so Tir won't hate me.

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Lyanna Stark
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Francois Arnoud would work for Crow's Eye for me :swoon:

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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
Mags Giantsbabe
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Just started watching it, I'm almost towards the end of season one, loving it so far. Why do people keep assuming Kit and Emilia will "leave for Hollywood?" They will probably stay until their respective parts in the series is over.

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