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Topic: Season 4 Speculation *No Spoilers*

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Macha
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Season 4 Speculation *No Spoilers*
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This thread is for non-readers and readers alike, so let's try to avoid spoilers, and focus solely on the show.

Happy hiatus, everyone! trollface



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Black as Snow
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The Starks will have an interesting season 4.  At least some of them will, anyway. I'm thinking we've seen the last of Rickon for a while.   I doubt he'll have more than a scene or two in S4.  Sansa may have some excitement, but only by virtue of being in KL, where there may be a lot of action.  Unless Tyrion is named ambassador to Pentos or something similar, she'll stay put.   She has nowhere to go.   The only other likely possibility is that she ends up at Casterly Rock, but that seems unlikely.

The other Starks will have much more interesting times coming up.  I'll write a post about what I expect to see happen north of the Wall, so I'll discuss Jon and Bran there.  Arya is the hardest to predict.   Assuming she stays alive for the season, only one thing is certain.  Her body count will increase.  Other than that, there are so many possibilities.  I'm hoping she'll stay with the Hound for a while.  The Hound has nowhere to go, and I assume anyone loyal to the Lannisters will want a piece of him.  Even though it's interesting that he didn't come up once in any discussions in King's Landing in S3.  I think it's safe to assume there's a bounty on him.  I love her rapport with the Hound, and I wonder if she'll feel conflicted when the time comes for her to kill him.  I don't know that she would succeed if she tried, but it would be interesting to see them square off.  The Hound could certainly teach her a lot.

I suspect that if Arya ends up staying around the center of Westeros, she'll run into the Brotherhood again.  I don't know of any reason it would be an overly contentious reunion.  After all, what is there for them to fight about?  If she and the Hound part ways (one way or another), I could see her rejoining them.  So I can see her sticking around the area and preying on Freys for what they did to her family.  But she may also set her sights elsewhere.  There's Bolton in the North or the large number of Lannisters in the South.  And all of them need killing.  Of course, it would be fascinating if she took up Jaquen H'gar on his offer and went to Bravos to become faceless.  But I doubt that's going to happen.  She's too driven to accept the delayed gratification that path would entail.  More likely, she attempts to kill the people she believes she needs to kill more directly.  The other possibility is that the Hound will have a plan and she'll tag along.  I don't really see that happening, but it's possible.  The one thing I really want to see is a reunion with Nymeria.  That girl needs her wolf.  And her needle.   

 



-- Edited by Black as Snow on Thursday 18th of July 2013 11:07:49 PM

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DonalNoyesArm
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Black as Snow wrote:

That girl needs her wolf.  And her needle.   

-- Edited by Black as Snow on Thursday 18th of July 2013 11:07:49 PM

 waterdancer



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Rygar
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I think Arya will find Jacqen and go on a killing spree. That would rule.

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Black as Snow
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Ooooh, that would! As long as we don't have to see the ugly guy he became. Maybe he's ready for a new face?

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Rygar
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The ugly guy was quite charming in a Sicilian sort of way.

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Black as Snow
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I have no idea what that means. But he's certainly not as, um, charismatic. jaqen

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Macha
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But I'm not. Heh.

ontopic.gif



-- Edited by Macha on Monday 22nd of July 2013 02:01:44 PM

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Rygar
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I am not sure either, only that he looks like he is from Sicily and could fuck a person up.

I dont care if she hooks up with Nymeria. The wolves have had so little to do. Everytime they appear, Im like oh ok, good job, now please continue in that vain and then they disappear again.

I am hoping that Theon finds his balls and starts kickig some bastard ass.

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Black as Snow
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No, Theon won't be finding anything. I can say with confidence that he's broken, completely. If his sister or anyone else manages to get to him, she won't find a person who bears any resemblance to the Theon we know and love.

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Rygar
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True BaS, and Martin certainly does not play the "feel good story" angle, but Theon's arc just BEGS for redemption, heroic and possibly tragic, but redeeming nnonetheless.

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Black as Snow
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Whoever's wrong buys the other's drinks for a night. Im betting on a barely human version of Theon in the end.

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Rygar
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Either way I will be drinking so deal.

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Black as Snow
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Then I should compare you to Podrick? teehee Nah, can't hold his liquor. Don is far too kind to delete our witty banter.

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Rygar
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MMachas off topic with her on topic post

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Al Swearengen
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My prediction for season 4 is lots and lots of nipples and merkins.

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Black as Snow
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You might be onto something, Al.

I was thinking about Arya and the Hound some more. I think they'll stay a team for most or all of season 4, and stay around Central Westeros (north of King's Landing, south of The North. lol). So the the Brotherhood will be around -- they're too well developed not to be. What I really want is to see the Hound and Arya face off against and kill the Mountain. That would be a fun fight. So maybe Joffrey or Tywin will send the Mountain after his brother. That would make me a happy girl.



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Rygar
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The Hound vs The Mountain would be epic.


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DonalNoyesArm
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Rygar wrote:

The Hound vs The Mountain would be epic.

 I'd buy that for a dollar! biggrin

What are your thoughts on the upcoming nuptials in Kings Landing Lady Black? Your thoughts on what might develop for the Nights Watch? How about Dany?



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Black as Snow
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Dany is one of a couple of characters I consider "safe". She won't be dying any time soon. In season 4, Dany's coming across the narrow sea. Her conquest of Yunkai plus her alliance with Daario surely gives her the men and the gold she needs to make the jump. I don't know how much preparatory work there will be for that in s4 or if she's going to be on a boat from the outset of the season. I think her brother and others have been right. She does still have supporters in Westeros. And I imagine that some of these supporters may have the resources to provide her with a foothold in Westeros. I'm not as aware of the politics of Westeros as a book reader would be, so I can't speculate about who that would be. Someone who will be introduced this season, no doubt. So how much screen time they give to planning and continuing to gather followers in Essos is the only thing that's in question.

As for King's Landing and the Night's Watch, that'll take longer than I have tonight to write about.

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DonalNoyesArm
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Lady Black one thing you might consider on your Dany thoughts. When Aegon conquered westeros his dragons were huge, big enough to ride on and they could eat a horse whole. Dany's dragons were at least the size of large dogs when we leave her this season.

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The remaining would-be kings are interesting. We haven't seen much of the Greyjoys since season 2, but I expect that to change. We've been set up for a Bolton versus Greyjoy struggle. It sounds as though Yara is off to try to save her brother and Bolton (or Ramsay Snow) has set his sights on ousting the Iron Men from the mainland. Honestly, I don't know how much time they'll spend on the Iron Islands this season. It's pretty boring, if you ask me, so I'm happy if it stays minimal.

The truly interesting thing coming up for the Greyjoys is Yara's journey with her 50 best men. I know Westeros is supposed to be huge, and I don't have any feel for how long it should take to sail her fastest ship all the way around to the other side. That's the piece of information I'm missing to figure out what will happen. If it's a long journey, I'm certain Yara will get waylaid and not make it to save her brother any time soon. I'm envisioning a similar scenario for her as for Catelyn Stark. She goes on a relatively simple mission with a straightforward goal, and ends up doing everything but what she expected. If it's a short journey, maybe she will make it to save what's left of her brother in season 4. But if that's how things go, the return trip will surely be rocky for them. A rescue can't go off without complications in Westeros. It's against the rules.

What I hope for is that Yara and Salador Saan will face off. I don't know how territorial pirates are, but I'm sure Salador would not be pleased to see Ironmen in the Narrow Sea. He's such a fantastic character, I hope he at least makes an appearance in season 4.

I think they may use Yara's journey as a way to introduce new geographical areas. It's hard not to notice that ASOIAF readers are discussing Dorne nonstop, so this may be the angle that the show uses to introduce Dorne.

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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

Lady Black one thing you might consider on your Dany thoughts. When Aegon conquered westeros his dragons were huge, big enough to ride on and they could eat a horse whole. Dany's dragons were at least the size of large dogs when we leave her this season.

A good point.  I wasn't even thinking of the dragons as a decisive factor in Dany's favor just yet.  (Even though they're growing fast!)   I was thinking strictly in terms of the forces she has...the Unsullied, Daario's men and whatever ex-slaves are willing to join her and fight for her.  And freed slaves could be very substantial in number.  It's unclear from the final scene of season 4 whether the adoring masses had an intention of following Dany or going on their merry way to wherever they came from.  If you assume these are largely multi-generational slaves, they may well not have anywhere to go.  With the forces in Westeros weakened by war, it might be a good time for Dany to gain a foothold in a corner of Westeros and spread her influence from there.

But you're right.  If she's planning on making an entrance reminiscent of her forefather, we're going to be waiting at least a couple more seasons for her to hop across the pond.  If that's the case, I think she'll take a page from the Dothraki playbook.  She can go from city to city building her own version of a khalasar and forcing the slave cities to release their slaves as "tribute."  She could become immensely powerful until those in power (or hoping to be) in Westeros have no choice but to recognize what a massive threat she is.  If she stays on the "wrong" side of the Narrow Sea, she'll definitely still be dealing with the sorcerers.  And I feel like at least one of her inner circle will end up falling victim to them.  I could easily see Missandei or Barristan Selmy or even Jorah getting killed saving Dany in their next encounter with those purple-lipped freaks.

In any case, I hope season 4 sees some more development of Dany's character.  She's starting to grow up.  And she'll become more sexually liberated.  I know she's going to get her freak on with Daario.    I hope we see some developments that are more interesting than her jumping his bones.



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Tir Airgid
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oh Basi, this is meaty, loving it!

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Black as Snow
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There are so many possibilities for Jaime this season, it's hard to come up with a prediction for which way it will go.  I think the look Cersei gave him was most likely foreshadowing for his treatment by his family.  With the exception of Tyrion and Tommen, of course. 

An important issue will be how Joffrey receives him.  I don't expect a joyous reunion.  I think the king will be as dismissive and impudent as he is with everyone.  The question is whether Jaime will be released from the King's Guard.  I know it's an oath for life, but Cersei set a precedent when she sent Barristan Selmy on his way.  And what use is a one-armed King's Guard?  Surely with such a limited number of men in the guard, there's a procedure in place for what happens when one is maimed so that he can be replaced with an able-bodied man.  So I'm interested to see whether Joffrey will keep Jaime under his thumb or set him free from his oath.

I think Jaime wants to continue on with his life as it was before, even though he has changed and grown out of the role he once played.  But I don't believe for a moment that's going to happen.  I don't know if Cersei will accept him back.  I would think she would, but now whole-heartedly.  Or at least, I don't think he will feel it's whole-hearted acceptance. Plus Cersei is betrothed to Ser Loras.  (But I have the distinct impression that Cersei is absolutely right.  That wedding will never happen.) 

Tywin's reaction will be interesting.  Keeping in mind his focus on the long term and on his legacy, I think he'll be happy to have his non-dwarf heir back.  I don't think he'll show it though.  He'll be as hard on Jaime as ever.  If Jaime is released from his oath to the King's Guard, I would expect that Tywin will send Jaime to Casterly Rock to rule in his stead.  This not only forces Jaime to step up into the leadership position he has always rejected, it also separates Jaime and Cersei.  (Yes, I'm ignoring the betrothal of Loras and Cersei, as I mentioned.)  And in this scenario, Tywin would expect Jaime to marry.  Whether any of that actually would come to pass is related to what happens to Tywin this season, which I'll save for another post.  

There's an entirely different possibility for Jaime, which is unlikely but appealing.  Jaime could leave King's Landing and strike out on a different path.  Or he could be sent away from KL on a mission of one sort or another.  Maybe he'll be sent after The Hound.  Or maybe he'll be sent to lead men against the Brotherhood.  It's hard for me to imagine Joffrey or Tywin thinking him competent to lead men into battle, but I suppose it's possible.

In any case, we haven't seen the last of badass Jaime.  I think he's going to train to fight with one hand.  I hope that Brienne is there to train with him.  He needs someone compassionate who understands what he's been through.  Whether Brienne moves on, disappears from the story or stays with Jaime though whatever circumstance is coming is up in the air.  It truly could go either way. 

My hopes are pinned on Joffrey releasing/rejecting Jaime.  I want Brienne to stay with him in whatever is next for him as he retrains himself to fight.  My hope is that he'll be sent away from King's Landing, but I just can't predict what form that parting will take.



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Mags Giantsbabe
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Not sure why they haven't posted this yet over at Wicnet, but Kit talks a little about season four:

http://www.accesshollywood.com/kit-harington-talks-game-of-thrones-season-4-theres-a-lot-of-blood_article_82865

http://tvline.com/2013/08/08/game-of-thrones-season-preview-jon-ygritte/

 

biggrin



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DonalNoyesArm
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Lady Black, now that Jamie is back in King's landing, so all of Tywin's children will be in one place. You think that might better or worsen Tywin's relationship with them...and does that affect your theory?

Especially considering Jaime is a very different man now after his capture from the Starks.



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Monday 26th of August 2013 12:19:58 PM

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I've been thinking it through, and I'm convinced Tywin is going to be murdered. I'm not sure who will do it, and who will be responsible for it occurring, but I feel strongly that it's going to happen. I was thinking maybe Cersei, since she wants to get out of the marriage to Loras (and I think she will). I don't think it will be Tyrion, unless there's a major change in the status quo. Tyrion (and Cersei) understand all too well that Tywin is the only one who can put Joffrey in his place. So killing Tywin would leave Joffrey unchecked, except to the extent Margaery can influence him. I think Cersei may be impetuous enough to disregard that, but Tyrion isn't. Jaime is a distinct possibility, since he has evolved a new perspective. Either Cersei could try to manipulate him into it (how receptive he'll be is questionable) or Tywin's own actions in response to his son's return could goad Jaime into it. Then of course there's the possibility that Joffrey will have Tywin killed. Tywin has belittled Joffrey and has become a barrier between Joffrey and has kept Joffrey out of the loop on any real decision-making, so I wouldn't be shocked to see Joffrey act to remove the obstacle. I wish Arya could kill Tywin, but I don't see events unfolding this season in a way that she'll have the opportunity. Then again, it might not happen till S5, so who knows?

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Macha
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You know, if it's one dynamic I'm really curious to see how it develops, it's Jaime and Loras.

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DonalNoyesArm
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This might be a teeny detail Lady Black, but the reason we are interested in this dynamic also, in the book Jaime returns to Kings Landing a little later than the TV show...so this will be interesting and new for us also!

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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

Lady Black, now that Jamie is back in King's landing, so all of Tywin's children will be in one place. You think that might better or worsen Tywin's relationship with them...and does that affect your theory?

Especially considering Jaime is a very different man now after his capture from the Starks.

 I think it will worsen considerably with Tyrion.  Tyrion was the default heir as long as it looked like Jaime wasn't coming back.  Tywin gave him more responsibility and arranged a auspicious marriage for him.  And whether Tywin admits it or not, he gained respect for Tyrion.  Now that golden boy (or not so golden) is back, I think there will be even more tension between Tyrion and Tywin, and Tyrion will feel even more rejected by his father.

I'm really curious how Tywin and Jaime's relationship will change.  I talked about some of the possibilities for Jaime previously.  I don't think Tywin will like the changes to Jaime, and he will quickly discover that his son has finally grown up, but grown into someone completely different from what he had hoped.  I don't know that Jaime will still have the same measure of respect for Tywin as before.  I think we'll see a meeting between the two that is starkly different from that first meeting where Tywin berates Jaime while dressing the deer.  And now Tywin knows those "disgusting rumors" about Jaime and Cersei, so he will try to keep Jaime and Cersei apart.  So I don't know how things will go, but I think Jaime will reject whatever it is that Tywin offers him.

Cersei understands the valuable service her father is performing in keeping Joffrey in check.  But again, I don't know that it will be enough to stop her from having him killed.  After all, she is looking at getting married off to Loras and leaving everything she knows and loves for Highgarden.  So it's a balancing act.  I don't know how much Jaime's return will worsen that balance because I don't have a good feel for whether Jaime and Cersei's relationship will be able to resume because of the changes in Jaime, both mentally and physically. 

I still think Tywin will get whacked.  I suspect Cersei will be the driving force, but I'm not totally confident in that.



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Macha wrote:

You know, if it's one dynamic I'm really curious to see how it develops, it's Jaime and Loras.

Oh yes. That should be tense!  Obviously there's respect between the two men, whether they openly admit it or not.  But Jaime doesn't stand a chance physically against Loras anymore, and the cocksure Jaime is gone, so it will be fascinating to watch.  I hope the writers give us at least one scene where they have a face to face meeting.



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Macha wrote:

You know, if it's one dynamic I'm really curious to see how it develops, it's Jaime and Loras.

 I think Jaime and Loras should get it on.  I think I can find a logical way for this to happen.  



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Macha
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Black as Snow wrote:
Obviously there's respect between the two men, whether they openly admit it or not.  But Jaime doesn't stand a chance physically against Loras anymore, and the cocksure Jaime is gone, so it will be fascinating to watch. 

 I forget, did we have a scene between these two in S1? Because yeah, what you said. Respect thingy. Spot on, me thinks.

Re: Cersei being behind Tywin's demise, I'm not gonna say anything other than...wouldn't it be easier for her to get rid of Loras instead of Tywin? Then again, it's Cersei, so anything's possible.



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Macha wrote:
Re: Cersei being behind Tywin's demise, I'm not gonna say anything other than...wouldn't it be easier for her to get rid of Loras instead of Tywin? Then again, it's Cersei, so anything's possible.

Yes, it would be much simpler, but I don't think she's going to kill Loras.  If Cersei were to have a Tyrell assassinated, it would surely be Margaery.  Margaery is a real threat to Cersei, and there's no other way to get rid of her.  Joffrey isn't about to change his mind about the marriage, and Tywin has no reason to stop it.  And I honestly don't know whether either marriage will happen anyway.  As I said, I don't think Cersei will be forced to remarry, but Joffrey may get married this season.

Spoiler

The other issue that's up in the air regarding King's Landing in Season 4 is how Joffrey/Tywin will react to the news from the Wall.  We saw that Stannis took it very seriously, and we can expect some action on his part to start addressing the issue.  I don't have a sense for how the Lannisters will react.  Now that the Starks have been eliminated, the only threat to the throne in S4 is Stannis.  And based on S3, they don't believe he's a serious threat.  So will the Lannisters allow themselves to be distracted?  I don't think they will ignore the news, but I don't think they will take the threat of the white walkers and the wildlings as seriously as Stannis does.  I think Tywin will send a force north, but it will not be a substantial force.  Tywin still needs some men to guard against Stannis, even if he doesn't feel particularly threatened by him.  Maybe Tywin will send the forces that were arrayed against the Starks and send them north.  He will expect his new Warden of the North to participate in dealing with the threat as well, even though the Boltons seem more interested in taking out the Greyjoys at the moment.  It will be interesting to see whether the Lannister and Northern forces can play nicely together.  



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DonalNoyesArm
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You know Lady Black, I keep being flabbergasted how much solid knowledge and insight you have gleaned from only the Tv show as your source of info.

I think it's both a testament to your insightfulness and the Tv show's ability to still impart knowledge in a lot more compact time frame.

One silly question, remember in Season 1 when an assassin tried to kill Bran in his bed? That wholw thing that made Cat arrest Tyrion. Now we are going into the 4th season, have you figured out who it was?

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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

One silly question, remember in Season 1 when an assassin tried to kill Bran in his bed? That wholw thing that made Cat arrest Tyrion. Now we are going into the 4th season, have you figured out who it was?

I have always assumed it was Cersei.  She seems to be the one with the stomach for the dirty work.  I can't imagine Jaime getting a street thug to clean up his mess.  It could be Tyrion, but I would be very surprised if that was the case.  S1 Tyrion had far less resolve than S3 Tyrion, even when it came to family.  He's much stronger and more resolute now that he's gotten a taste of politics and has repeatedly had to fight for his survival.  There would be multiple possibilities if it weren't for the dagger.  I can't think of anyone else who was in the North, had a reason to kill Bran, and had access to that dagger.  So yeah, I'm still going with Cersei.



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A little bird wants to know who I think is going to die in Season 4. As if that's easy to guess. I went through the Season 3 cast list at WiC and made some wild guesses. Basically, I'm predicting a good year for Starks and a bad year for Lannisters, and mass casualties for the Brotherhood, the Wildlings and the Night's Watch.

Kicking the bucket: Tywin Lannister, Joffrey Barathister, The Mountain, Shae, Beric Dondarrion (at least once), Daario, Walder Frey, Theon (I hope), Locke, Orell

Definitely safe: Melisandre, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Hodor, Danaerys, Tyrion, Yara, Osha and Rickon

Probably safe: Stannis, Mance, Little Finger, Thoros, Varys, Cersei, Jaime, Edmure Tully, Roose Bolton, Jorah, Margaery, Sam, Lysa Arryn, Grey Worm, Tommen, Brienne, Podrick, Gendry, Davos, Tormund, Olenna and Missandei

Not safe: Blackfish, Loras, Lancel Lannister, the Hound, Anguy, Rattleshirt, Barristan Selmy, Bronn (don't you dare kill him GRRM!), Jojen and Meera Reed

Did I miss anyone? I have no idea if we'll see characters like Dolorous Edd and Grenn next season, or if they're even alive.

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Cary Storm
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I kind of thought Orell was already dead.  Jon Snow stabbing him and all that.  Unless you count his consciousness living on in the bird.  If it still is. 



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Black as Snow
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I don't recall seeing him actually die from what I remember. I'll take a look when my DVD's get here.

I forgot a few charactera. Balon Greyjoy....probably gonna die if he's in this season. Robin Arryn is definitely not safe either with LF around. And Ramsay Bolton isn't going to die just yet.

And we better have some wolves in Season 4. And they better stay alive. So Nymeria and Ghost need to get with the program.

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Rygar
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You forgot my favorite accent....

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Black as Snow
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Rygar wrote:

You forgot my favorite accent....

  How did that happen?  They 'll kill Ygritte.  But I don't want to see a return to emo Jon Snow. 



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Lyanna Stark
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Yeaaaaaaaay clap :whistles: Very glad you made your kicking-the-bucket list, very insightful



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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
Lyanna Stark
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In the books, Lady Black, the direwolves are mentioned more often. I think it's hard for D&D/CGI/HBO to show these wolves being violent to people, excepting the ghost/wight walker scene, Jaime/greywind, summer/Bran's attacker, GreatJon/Greywind. I do miss Greywind's departure as depicted in the book, there was more to it. HOPEFULLY, we will see more of them in S4,S5, etc.

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Rhaegar, despite wounding Robert, was struck down with a massive blow from Robert's warhammer, which scattered the rubies encrusted in Rhaegar's armor under the water.  Rhaegar died with Lyanna Stark's name on his lips.

 
Macha
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Black as Snow wrote:
Joffrey Barathister

  I love this.

Can't say anything about this list, other than it's impressive. And wrong. Oh, so very wrong. Or maybe not. Who knows.

I forgot what happens to Orell, does he get stabbed?



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Rygar
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I thought this was a show speculation?  Anything can happen.  I think Season 4 will have more bad writing.



-- Edited by Rygar on Friday 24th of January 2014 12:17:16 PM

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Rygar
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I don't think they can kill off Tywin. He's too good a character/ actor. Besides he is too bad ass to die.

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Cary Storm
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Game of Thrones Wiki says,

"Orell manages to cheat death, however, by with his dying breath warging into the mind of his eagle. As Jon stands over Orell's dead human body, Orell's consciousness controlling the eagle's body attempts to exact revenge by clawing at Jon's face with his talons, but Jon is able to fight him off."1

So I guess he's dead-not-dead.



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Macha wrote:
Black as Snow wrote:
Joffrey Barathister

  I love this.

Can't say anything about this list, other than it's impressive. And wrong. Oh, so very wrong. Or maybe not. Who knows.

I forgot what happens to Orell, does he get stabbed?

 It wouldn't be any fun if I was totally right.  Actually, I'm wondering if they'll kill Yara this season.  They might just.



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Black as Snow
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Rygar wrote:

I don't think they can kill off Tywin. He's too good a character/ actor. Besides he is too bad ass to die.

 He's good as dead, Ry.  I'm sure of it.  He has to die.  I just don't know who's going to do it yet.



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