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Topic: "Cutting The Bloat. Adapting "A Feast For Crows" AND "A Dance With Dragons" into 1 season.

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Macha
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RE: "Cutting The Bloat. Adapting "A Feast For Crows" AND "A Dance With Dragons" into 1 season.
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I wonder why we need Varamyr tho.

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DonalNoyesArm
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I think maybe he might be the one that gets glamoured by Melly Sanders and burned? Then again if memory serves wasn't rattleshirt the one that got BBQ'd? They need a few extra folks for all the wheel spinning that Jon will be doing at the wall next season, maybe that is it.

I guess I am outta ideas.

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jentario
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Melly Sanders! That's amazing!
Anyway, Tormund is south of the Wall as of season 4 episode 8, which means he probably can't assume command of the Wildlings in season 5. So maybe Varamyr will replace him, and they'll send Tormund to broker the deal instead of Val which was cut from the show.

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jentario wrote:

Melly Sanders! That's amazing!
Anyway, Tormund is south of the Wall as of season 4 episode 8, which means he probably can't assume command of the Wildlings in season 5. So maybe Varamyr will replace him, and they'll send Tormund to broker the deal instead of Val which was cut from the show.

 Good one, now what the hell is gonna happen o Gilly, Maester Aemon and Sam? The switched baby story has been seemingly eliminated, so there is no reason to make them flee for that reason.



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Friday 6th of June 2014 01:13:38 PM

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jentario
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
jentario wrote:

Melly Sanders! That's amazing!
Anyway, Tormund is south of the Wall as of season 4 episode 8, which means he probably can't assume command of the Wildlings in season 5. So maybe Varamyr will replace him, and they'll send Tormund to broker the deal instead of Val which was cut from the show.

 Good one, now what the hell is gonna happen o Gilly, Maester Aemon and Sam? The switched baby story has been seemingly eliminated, so there is no reason to make them flee for that reason.



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Friday 6th of June 2014 01:13:38 PM

 Yes there is, silly! Aemon still has king's blood and this season is proof that Gilly is not safe at the Wall. So Jon will likely send Sam and Aemon and let Gilly and baby Sam tag along and go to a safer place. Seeing Arya interact with this group in Braavos could be really fun. I hope they expand that a bit (since I doubt they will have Sam carry his own storyline- he'll leave the Wall then appear through Arya and then leave again). Maybe they can have Arya bitchslap Gilly.



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DonalNoyesArm
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jentario wrote:

Seeing Arya interact with this group in Braavos could be really fun. I hope they expand that a bit (since I doubt they will have Sam carry his own storyline- he'll leave the Wall then appear through Arya and then leave again).

 I hope so too, maybe she will find out through Sam that Jon is Lord commander. i would love to see her reaction.



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Macha
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jentario wrote:

 Yes there is, silly! Aemon still has king's blood and this season is proof that Gilly is not safe at the Wall. So Jon will likely send Sam and Aemon and let Gilly and baby Sam tag along and go to a safer place.

 This sounds good, but then Gilly would be taking her own child? I think part of what made that story interesting (other than Sam's fat pink mast, trololol) was the fact that she had to care for another baby while leaving hers behind.

As for the wildlings north of the wall, something tells me they'll eliminate that completely. Frankly, I'd love for the show to prove Val is a pointless character, because she sure seemed like that in the books, to me at least.



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Cary Storm
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So, does Sam encounter Arya in Braavos, then send a raven back to Castle Black to Jon that his sister is alive too? Oh, but that would ruin the fake Arya storyline, and motivation for Jon to attack Winterfell. Which is a big mess anyway.

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Al Swearengen
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Fake Arya won't happen nor is it really needed. Jon will have motivation to march on Winterfell after Ramsey taunts him and claims to of flayed Mance.



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Cosca
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I think Fake Arya is necessary for Theon's character arc next season, while agreeing that it isn't necessary for Jon's story.. He could always get stabbed for something else, and I don't think that he'll be going to Winterfell after his resurrection, though I may ultimately be mistaken.



-- Edited by Cosca on Friday 6th of June 2014 05:24:19 PM

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Cosca
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Also, I think all that Oldtown crap will be cut, and Sam will stay at the Wall.

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Macha
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Cosca wrote:

Also, I think all that Oldtown crap will be cut, and Sam will stay at the Wall.

The problem with Oldtown is that it seems to be a very slow arc, one that Sam should have went through like two books ago in order for him to actually learn something there. But I don't think it will be cut, since it's pretty important for Jon to be separated from his friends at the Wall when he gets stabbed. It's part of the hardship he's facing, having to take all these important decisions by himself with no one to turn to for advice.



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jentario
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Al Swearengen wrote:

Fake Arya won't happen nor is it really needed. Jon will have motivation to march on Winterfell after Ramsey taunts him and claims to of flayed Mance.

 It's absolutely necessary for Theon's character development. Reek won't save himself, he'd save a little helpless girl. I don't see why people think she'll be cut.

Sam in Oldtown is absolutely cuttable if it isn't going to be important, but I think it might end up being extremely important. D&D know, I trust they'll do the right thing.



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Cary Storm
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jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

Fake Arya won't happen nor is it really needed. Jon will have motivation to march on Winterfell after Ramsey taunts him and claims to of flayed Mance.

 It's absolutely necessary for Theon's character development. Reek won't save himself, he'd save a little helpless girl. I don't see why people think she'll be cut.

 I don't think it will be cut either. It's just too easy a storyline to make, and why divert from the books here?  Jeyne Poole or someone very much like her is going to be introduced at the very beginning of next season. What will be cut will probably be the "poor girl stuck in King's Landing after the Stark fall" plot point. She's probably going to be a local girl that Theon recognizes nonetheless.  



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jentario
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Cary Storm wrote:
jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

Fake Arya won't happen nor is it really needed. Jon will have motivation to march on Winterfell after Ramsey taunts him and claims to of flayed Mance.

 It's absolutely necessary for Theon's character development. Reek won't save himself, he'd save a little helpless girl. I don't see why people think she'll be cut.

 I don't think it will be cut either. It's just too easy a storyline to make, and why divert from the books here?  Jeyne Poole or someone very much like her is going to be introduced at the very beginning of next season. What will be cut will probably be the "poor girl stuck in King's Landing after the Stark fall" plot point. She's probably going to be a local girl that Theon recognizes nonetheless.  

 I agree



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Al Swearengen
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I've seen no evidence of Jeyne Poole even existing in the show, they'd of mentioned something about her by now. Seems kinda pointless and out of the the blue to dust off that story arc now.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Saturday 7th of June 2014 12:19:50 PM

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jentario
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Al Swearengen wrote:

I've seen no evidence of Jeyne Poole even existing in the show, they'd of mentioned something about her by now. Seems kinda pointless and out of the the blue to dust off that story arc now.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Saturday 7th of June 2014 12:19:50 PM

 It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. It can be any Northern girl that looks like Arya and that the Boltons force into playing the role. She just has to exist.



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Al Swearengen
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jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

I've seen no evidence of Jeyne Poole even existing in the show, they'd of mentioned something about her by now. Seems kinda pointless and out of the the blue to dust off that story arc now.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Saturday 7th of June 2014 12:19:50 PM

 It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. It can be any Northern girl that looks like Arya and that the Boltons force into playing the role. She just has to exist.

Eh I am fine with fake Arya being cut. It's not like they can't just have Ramsey force Reek to molest a random girl or a whore.

If we get fake Arya and no Victarion I'll be disappointed



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jentario
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Al Swearengen wrote:
jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

I've seen no evidence of Jeyne Poole even existing in the show, they'd of mentioned something about her by now. Seems kinda pointless and out of the the blue to dust off that story arc now.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Saturday 7th of June 2014 12:19:50 PM

 It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. It can be any Northern girl that looks like Arya and that the Boltons force into playing the role. She just has to exist.

Eh I am fine with fake Arya being cut. It's not like they can't just have Ramsey force Reek to molest a random girl or a whore.

If we get fake Arya and no Victarion I'll be disappointed

 But you do HAVE to have fake Arya. Without her the Boltons have no power on the North, without her Jon doesn't get involved with the Boltons by sending Mance to get her (which is the reason why he gets stabbed), without her Reek would never flee Winterfell and meet with Stannis... There's no reason to cut her, regardless of the inclusion of Victarion or any other major character.



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jentario
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Also, Kingsmoot may well be in if we can believe this post in Reddit:
imgur.com/gallery/y25qq/new
www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/27jgpb/spoilers_all_i_live_in_belfast_and_got_treated_to/

I wouldn't say that this is absolutely real, and even if it is it doesn't mean Victarion is in. But it would mean Euron is in, which would be great.

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Al Swearengen
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jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:
jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

I've seen no evidence of Jeyne Poole even existing in the show, they'd of mentioned something about her by now. Seems kinda pointless and out of the the blue to dust off that story arc now.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Saturday 7th of June 2014 12:19:50 PM

 It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. It can be any Northern girl that looks like Arya and that the Boltons force into playing the role. She just has to exist.

Eh I am fine with fake Arya being cut. It's not like they can't just have Ramsey force Reek to molest a random girl or a whore.

If we get fake Arya and no Victarion I'll be disappointed

 But you do HAVE to have fake Arya. Without her the Boltons have no power on the North, without her Jon doesn't get involved with the Boltons by sending Mance to get her (which is the reason why he gets stabbed), without her Reek would never flee Winterfell and meet with Stannis... There's no reason to cut her, regardless of the inclusion of Victarion or any other major character.

The Bolton's are already the top dogs in the north they don't need a wedding to a fake Arya to solidify their power. Roose is the warden of the north and he's got the backing of the Iron Throne. Reek doesn't need fake Arya to come to his senses, it's possible for the character to wake up after witnessing another horrific act.

You have to remember the show's universe is extremely diminutive compared to the novels, the north has been barely fleshed out by D & D.



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jentario
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Al Swearengen wrote:
jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:
jentario wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

I've seen no evidence of Jeyne Poole even existing in the show, they'd of mentioned something about her by now. Seems kinda pointless and out of the the blue to dust off that story arc now.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Saturday 7th of June 2014 12:19:50 PM

 It doesn't have to be Jeyne Poole. It can be any Northern girl that looks like Arya and that the Boltons force into playing the role. She just has to exist.

Eh I am fine with fake Arya being cut. It's not like they can't just have Ramsey force Reek to molest a random girl or a whore.

If we get fake Arya and no Victarion I'll be disappointed

 But you do HAVE to have fake Arya. Without her the Boltons have no power on the North, without her Jon doesn't get involved with the Boltons by sending Mance to get her (which is the reason why he gets stabbed), without her Reek would never flee Winterfell and meet with Stannis... There's no reason to cut her, regardless of the inclusion of Victarion or any other major character.

The Bolton's are already the top dogs in the north they don't need a wedding to a fake Arya to solidify their power. Roose is the warden of the north and he's got the backing of the Iron Throne. Reek doesn't need fake Arya to come to his senses, it's possible for the character to wake up after witnessing another horrific act.

You have to remember the show's universe is extremely diminutive compared to the novels, the north has been barely fleshed out by D & D.

But the whole point in Reek's escaspe is that he wasn't doing it for himself, he was doing it for the little girl that Ramsay is torturing. It kills the redemption arc if he's only saving his own ass, and kind of makes no sense either. Reek doesn't value himself much, he wouldn't just decide to take a dip out of the walls of Winterfell just for the sake of it...



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DonalNoyesArm
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I agree, rather have Vic over Fake- Arya, it seems like something that could be easily ommited.

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Cosca
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Vic is very easily omitted. He's just a plot device to get ships for Dany. In any case though, Fake Arya being included is hardly going to effect whether or not Vic is in. She's part of an established storyline, Vic is coming out of essentially nowhere.

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The Kingsmoot was terrible in the books, because Mr. Turtle managed to stretch that shit out over a gazillion chapters. I am not a fan per se, but I can see two episodes worth of material that can be quite entertaining. It's all about the pacing and the credibility/acting chops of the Greyjoy brothers.

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Atreyu
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Macha wrote:

I wonder why we need Varamyr tho.

Foreshadowing. I don't think he's needed either, but a GURM's gotta GURM and everything of import that happens needs to be telegraphed.

 

Because GURM sux.



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Macha
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JapieQ wrote:

The Kingsmoot was terrible in the books, because Mr. Turtle managed to stretch that shit out over a gazillion chapters. I am not a fan per se, but I can see two episodes worth of material that can be quite entertaining.

 TWO episodes of Kingsmoot? I think the show will bring out some fantastic scenes out of this, but I think one episode is more than enough to cover it.

The Greyjoys are one of the things I am willing to bet viewers will like much more than in the books. So far the casting for the Ironborn has been very good - including minor characters, they have beautiful/creepy beaches and caves they can use  *and* they have a badass theme. CANNOT. WAIT.



-- Edited by Macha on Sunday 8th of June 2014 03:07:19 AM

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I thought The Kingsmoot was pretty neat in the books, but yeah it could be distilled into a 10-15 minute scene in the tv show.

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OMG! I CAN EDIT FROM MOBILE!!!!! I LOVE THIS! Whoever fixed that: huggs Does't mean I'm typo free now...

Talk about cutting the bloat!!! Let's spice this bitch thread up a bit!!!

winteriscoming.net/2014/06/09/neil-marshall-interview-round-detailing-battle-castle-black/

So he says he won't be back next year. But if there's a big battle then hopefully they've him a call.

I'd be laughing my ass off if Benioff and Weiss don't do the Meereen battle next season and they leave it for the 6th . As a shout out for all the Meereenese knot haters. teehee I'll also be shocked. Because that would mean they will do the Tyrion journey full story as well as the whole plotting in Meereen. Maybe even Quentyn! Oh, shit hahaha



 



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Monday 9th of June 2014 04:11:20 PM

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TormundsWoman wrote:
I'd be laughing my ass off if Benioff and Weiss don't do the Meereen battle next season and they leave it for the 6th . As a shout out for all the Meereenese knot haters. teehee I'll also be shocked. Because that would mean they will do the Tyrion journey full story as well as the whole plotting in Meereen. Maybe even Quentyn! Oh, shit hahaha




 



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Monday 9th of June 2014 04:11:20 PM

Why wouldn't they leave it for season 6? The Mayonnaise Knot was a problem the author created for himself and he tried to write his way through it. HBO can cover Tyrion's strolling row up the River Rhoyne in short order and not miss anything. And the political machinations in Meereen took a lot of pages, but when you sit and think about how it would appear on screen, it shouldn't take much time at all.

Martin spent a great many words world-building. But what he does in 300 pages, HBO can do in a quick selfie from an iPhone.



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Cosca
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David Nutter did episodes of Band of Brothers and the Pacific, he could easily do the battle sequences for the show.


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Atreyu wrote:
TormundsWoman wrote:
I'd be laughing my ass off if Benioff and Weiss don't do the Meereen battle next season and they leave it for the 6th . As a shout out for all the Meereenese knot haters. teehee I'll also be shocked. Because that would mean they will do the Tyrion journey full story as well as the whole plotting in Meereen. Maybe even Quentyn! Oh, shit hahaha

-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Monday 9th of June 2014 04:11:20 PM

Why wouldn't they leave it for season 6? The Mayonnaise Knot was a problem the author created for himself and he tried to write his way through it. HBO can cover Tyrion's strolling row up the River Rhoyne in short order and not miss anything. And the political machinations in Meereen took a lot of pages, but when you sit and think about how it would appear on screen, it shouldn't take much time at all.

Martin spent a great many words world-building. But what he does in 300 pages, HBO can do in a quick selfie from an iPhone.

 Oh, please, Atreyu! Of course HBO can do it in a quick selfie. And then it will look like Cersei's non rape or Yara's Dreadfort!

Back to the Meereenese knot: Most of the speculation from posters that wanted to cut drastically the bloat of AFFC & ADWD included both Winterfell and Meereen battles in season 5. The cost of doing them both would be huge but I expected at least one myself. That being said, not doing any of them would be a big boost for more book material NOT being cut. That was my point.

And by the way, how would the Rhoyne journey / Meereen machinations be short on screen but filling up the whole of Essos storyline for a whole season if battle is not included? What would they beef up the story with? Are you suggesting only show material?

Oh, Quentyn looks more possible by the second!



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Two books. Dos. Zwei. More than one. There is plenty of material in those pair, brace, slight handful of books to carry an entire season. Probably a good season, too. They don't need the battles to occur next season. But I'd love them to: more fire under GM's ass.

 

I'm hoping for Quentyn too. And fAegon.

 



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TormundsWoman
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Why do you hope for either one. I bet you didn't find any of them interesting!

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Atreyu
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I hope for them because the sooner they get to them, the sooner they pass our slovenly author.

It's like you don't know me anymore.

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But Quentyn and FAegon being cut would provide less time for Martin to publish his books! Having them in makes it better for Martin. He might even publish TWoW in late 2015!!!

Jeez, Atreyu! You make less sense than the first time we crossed paths...



-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Monday 9th of June 2014 06:17:35 PM

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Atreyu
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I see TW's words. But I am not in the way of knowing.

 

The sooner HBO gets to the end of ADWD, the sooner they pass GM. What's so hard to understand?

 



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TormundsWoman
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It is easy to understand me, Atreyu. Watch what I'm typing:

CUT fAegon and Quentyn, less material to put on screen from ADWD ---> so they get to TWoW faster. So why would you hope to have them on screen?

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Atreyu
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My point is that it won't take much screen time to include these characters. While the books were long on words, they were short on substance.



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TormundsWoman
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Your substance and my substance don't match, Atreyu. Even so including them gives Martin more time. Boy, you prove yourself stubborn as per usual.

(I think at heart you really want Martin to be ahead of the show!!!!)

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-- Edited by Atreyu on Monday 9th of June 2014 06:41:29 PM

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Al Swearengen
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Cosca wrote:

Vic is very easily omitted. He's just a plot device to get ships for Dany. In any case though, Fake Arya being included is hardly going to effect whether or not Vic is in. She's part of an established storyline, Vic is coming out of essentially nowhere.

He shouldn't be. I mean for christ sakes Victarion is Balon's brother and he's uncle to Theon and Asha, they should of mentioned him in multiple seasons by now. Randyll has been getting love since S1 I don't see why D & D couldn't of wrote lines for Balon or Asha talking about how Victarion has been raiding the north and took a castle.



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I think it should be obvious with Yara's barely seen appearances and (do we get Balon dying in Episode 10, hopefully? the only way to know for sure is to see Stannis throwing leeches into a fire in the recap) the other general lack of Greyjoy involvement, including the persistent non-mention of Theon's uncles that the entire Greyjoy arc has been significantly and irredeemably altered beyond repair and has been replaced with other plot devices (Dany already HAS the Meereeenese Navy, for instance). If there is a Kingsmoot next season, it only means that Balon dies and will almost certainly look nothing like it did in the books.

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Al Swearengen
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Cary Storm wrote:

I think it should be obvious with Yara's barely seen appearances and (do we get Balon dying in Episode 10, hopefully? the only way to know for sure is to see Stannis throwing leeches into a fire in the recap) the other general lack of Greyjoy involvement, including the persistent non-mention of Theon's uncles that the entire Greyjoy arc has been significantly and irredeemably altered beyond repair and has been replaced with other plot devices (Dany already HAS the Meereeenese Navy, for instance). If there is a Kingsmoot next season, it only means that Balon dies and will almost certainly look nothing like it did in the books.

We never saw it in the books did we? all I recall is that Balon fell off the bridge between the Pyke towers. I have heard theories that it was possibly Euron or the faceless men who killed Balon.



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Cary Storm
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Al Swearengen wrote:
Cary Storm wrote:

I think it should be obvious with Yara's barely seen appearances and (do we get Balon dying in Episode 10, hopefully? the only way to know for sure is to see Stannis throwing leeches into a fire in the recap) the other general lack of Greyjoy involvement, including the persistent non-mention of Theon's uncles that the entire Greyjoy arc has been significantly and irredeemably altered beyond repair and has been replaced with other plot devices (Dany already HAS the Meereeenese Navy, for instance). If there is a Kingsmoot next season, it only means that Balon dies and will almost certainly look nothing like it did in the books.

We never saw it in the books did we? all I recall is that Balon fell off the bridge between the Pyke towers. I have heard theories that it was possibly Euron or the faceless men who killed Balon.

It is clear that my ambiguity is not. What I mean is that the Kingsmoot will almost certainly look nothing like it did in the books.



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"There's no cure for being a cunt."  Bronn
"King Stannis is my god."  Davos
"Who the fuck is Jon Snow?"  Locke
Al Swearengen
Lord Paramount Of The Ginger Minge
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Cary Storm wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:
Cary Storm wrote:

I think it should be obvious with Yara's barely seen appearances and (do we get Balon dying in Episode 10, hopefully? the only way to know for sure is to see Stannis throwing leeches into a fire in the recap) the other general lack of Greyjoy involvement, including the persistent non-mention of Theon's uncles that the entire Greyjoy arc has been significantly and irredeemably altered beyond repair and has been replaced with other plot devices (Dany already HAS the Meereeenese Navy, for instance). If there is a Kingsmoot next season, it only means that Balon dies and will almost certainly look nothing like it did in the books.

We never saw it in the books did we? all I recall is that Balon fell off the bridge between the Pyke towers. I have heard theories that it was possibly Euron or the faceless men who killed Balon.

It is clear that my ambiguity is not. What I mean is that the Kingsmoot will almost certainly look nothing like it did in the books.

Just give me Euron's speech, the horn and I'll be satisfied.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Balon was killed "offscreen" in the books, that will certainly not work on Tv. My guess is that Yara gets back in the finale, talks to her dad and he might get offed right in front of her....or maybe not.

At this point I have no idea what will happen with the Greyjoys.

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Cary Storm
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

Balon was killed "offscreen" in the books, that will certainly not work on Tv. My guess is that Yara gets back in the finale, talks to her dad and he might get offed right in front of her....or maybe not.

At this point I have no idea what will happen with the Greyjoys.

 Given how much "Yara" sounds like "Euron"; I'm starting to really think that the plot changes were done well in advance and the name change was not strictly based on "possible confusion with Osha" which never made much sense to me anyway.  I have a feeling this may truly be Yara's Queensmoot. 



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Macha
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Balon's death and the Kingsmoot are S5 storylines, there is no way they'll kill him in the finale. He didn't have an arc this season, and neither did Yara, yet they have everything to gain if they keep that story for next season.

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TormundsWoman
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Cary Storm wrote:

I think it should be obvious with Yara's barely seen appearances and (do we get Balon dying in Episode 10, hopefully? the only way to know for sure is to see Stannis throwing leeches into a fire in the recap) the other general lack of Greyjoy involvement, including the persistent non-mention of Theon's uncles that the entire Greyjoy arc has been significantly and irredeemably altered beyond repair and has been replaced with other plot devices (Dany already HAS the Meereeenese Navy, for instance). If there is a Kingsmoot next season, it only means that Balon dies and will almost certainly look nothing like it did in the books.

 I kept expecting them to name drop at least Vic if not Euron this season. After Daario came with the fleet of ships captured, the exact number as the Ironborn's, I somehow lost a bit of faith they'll cast any other Greyjoy. I mean they hinted at most of the Dorne (Doran, Oberyn's daughters), Randyll Tarly but no Greyjoy. I'm starting to think like you.

And yes, Balon being already cast it would be a shame not to use his off page death as a big scene. I mentioned at wic that it would be awesome should they really bring in everyone's favorite Faceless Assassin for the Troll-Bridge death.



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