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Topic: So how screwed is GRRM really? *Book Spoilers*

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DonalNoyesArm
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So how screwed is GRRM really? *Book Spoilers*
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So eagle eyed viewers saw Dany's throne room scene, where the sheperd shows the bones of his daughter that got eaten by drogon.

So it's pretty much certain season 5 will be all AFFC and ADWD. So let's say the show cuts through the bloat and distills it all into a single season. The show will be all caught up with the books by 2015.

Even if GRRM releases Winds next year, and that material is used for season 6 of the show...he is still screwed as there is no way in hell he can write A Dream of Spring in a single year.

What's gonna happen?



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Macha
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Hahaha I love this thread. grrm
I imagine he'll probably manage to get TWoW out before the show catches up with the story, or at least most of the storylines. It's obvious the show is pushing ahead with Bran's storyline at a faster rate than with the other characters, for example, and I for one am glad they're doing it because it means they don't want to sacrifice quality by dragging it out (as it would have been easier to do).

I think it's obvious the show will give us a resolution before the books do, unless there are contractual issues that prevent this. I don't think there are though, otherwise GRRM wouldn't be talking about being bound to train tracks and seeing the smoke or whatever he calls it.

It's interesting though, because it would be the first time something like this happens with an adaptation, right? I imagine the show might loose some viewers if it goes further than the books, but not that many. Not all viewers have read the books and the show has a strong enough viewership to stand on his own even if it surpasses the books. Personally, I just want an ending, and so I'll definitely keep watching. It doesn't alter the story in any way for me, and I might even enjoy it more not knowing what they'll do.



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JapieQ
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Gurm isn't screwed, everyday there are trucks truckloads of money flowing in his bankaccount. The bookfans, they are screwed, and Gurm doesn't give two flying fucks about his fans despite everything he says. It happens to be I also don't give two flying fucks about gurm and all the vomit he wrote after Y2K.

Someone on IWC? (Ungregorian Chanting) summed it up very nicely for me:

"I would happily vote for a satisfactory TV-ending and no further books. It would be the end of George skullfucking the brains out of his own story. That shit is just tragic to witness."

(also, he hasn't mentioned TWOW on his blog for an entire year now, I really don't see this book ever seeing the light of day)



-- Edited by JapieQ on Tuesday 14th of January 2014 05:42:48 PM

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DonalNoyesArm
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JapieQ wrote:

"I would happily vote for a satisfactory TV-ending and no further books. It would be the end of George skullfucking the brains out of his own story. That shit is just tragic to witness."

 Hmmm, true. At this point I see the Tv show ending after 7 seasons and GRRM limping in with shoddy books 5 years afterwards.



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Lyanna Stark
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Hear, hear! D&D can do a better job at this point than Martin, IMO.

Spoiler
There is plenty for D&D to show in the seasons to come.



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DonalNoyesArm
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The vanity fair article pretty much convinced me grrm is fucked. I think he is actually a bit relieved probably, because if the show ends his story people will get off his back.

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Macha
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All in all, the VF article didn't say anything new. I was waiting for his choochoo metaphor but alas, he forgot to use it this time.
I can actually see him changing his ending(s) at the last minute, after the show concludes, just to be able to offer something new because honestly, I think this whole situation is just a bit humiliating for him. As it should be.


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Atreyu
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Lyanna Stark wrote:

Hear, hear! D&D can do a better job at this point than Martin, IMO.

Spoiler
There is plenty for D&D to show in the seasons to come.

My sweet summer child ... Season 4 will pretty much polish off AFFC/ADWD. It is known.

 

EDIT: I meant to say Season 5. Although Season 4 will have a good bit of it.



-- Edited by Atreyu on Wednesday 12th of March 2014 09:10:51 AM

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801.gif



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TormundsWoman
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Atreyu wrote:
Lyanna Stark wrote:

Hear, hear! D&D can do a better job at this point than Martin, IMO.

Spoiler
There is plenty for D&D to show in the seasons to come.

My sweet summer child ... Season 4 will pretty much polish off AFFC/ADWD. It is known.

 "It is NOT known!" said Jhiqui to her Irri (that would be you).



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DonalNoyesArm
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So after reading the delusional and ridiculous interview with Vanity Fair where he with a serious face states that he thinks it 's gonna take  3 more seasons to finish the remaining material from Crows and Dance. 

From the trailers alone we see that S4 is already chipping into book 4 and  5, so HOW THE FUCK is there enough material left for 3 more seasons? The man has officially lost his mind.

D&D love the show but you clearly see they are ready to wrap things up, mark my words Season  5 will finish book 4 and  5 in their entirety and GRRM is fucked worse than a Fleabottom Trollop.



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Al Swearengen
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Either George thinks because ASOS was split into two seasons due to its size he thinks the same will happen to ADWD, or he's had discussions with HBO or D & D which has lead him to believe time is on his side.

Realistically I'd like to see two seasons covering AFFC and ADWD, it can work. D & D are a bit delusional if they think seven seasons can wrap this series up, eight or nine is more realistic. If they stick with seven then the series is going to be extremely rushed and a lot of major characters will see the chopping board

Besides I honestly believe The Winds Of Winter will be released by the time ADWD has been adapted.



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Al Swearengen
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Also considering the cash cow GOT has become for HBO don't rule out the possibility of D & D being replaced as show runners, I hope to god that doesn't happen but we have seen that sort of thing happen to popular tv shows before.



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JapieQ
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Why on earth is 7 seasons delusional? We're not even halfway there. After season 5 there are no more books to adapt, how the hell can two seasons to tie things up be rushed?

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Al Swearengen wrote:

Besides I honestly believe The Winds Of Winter will be released by the time ADWD has been adapted.

I'm with you Al! I just go on instinct but I'm with you ;) 

As for the chopping block, I'm extremely curious to see what else gets axed. It depends on how important those characters or storylines are in the last two books.



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DonalNoyesArm
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I think fans will react well to Ellaria Sand and The Red Viper, and so will serve as a stepping stone to bring Dorne into the fold in season 5. After Season 4 the action in Kings Landing will get smaller with Tyrion, Sansa leaving the location plus Joffrey and Tywin dying that will leave just Cersei and Margaery as the focus point there.

I have no idea what is gonna happen with the Greyjoys, they might distill them all into Asha/Yara or maybe bring in one new one to replace Balon when he dies.

See D&D are being smart and drilling down and distilling the story while GRRM is only adding bloat, season 5 will bring the show up to date to the books and GRRM wont know because the choochoo he has been ignoring has run his fat booty over by that point.

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Al Swearengen
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JapieQ wrote:

Why on earth is 7 seasons delusional? We're not even halfway there. After season 5 there are no more books to adapt, how the hell can two seasons to tie things up be rushed?

Considering the ground there's still left to cover and the characters to introduce I don't think it's ideal. And there's still the fact that at the end of ADWD Dany is still no where near Westeros.

If D & D do insist on only seven then I really hope they or HBO increase the seasons to 12 or 13 episodes. The show would benefit with those extra couple hours.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Sunday 16th of March 2014 12:51:11 PM

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Al Swearengen
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TormundsWoman wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

Besides I honestly believe The Winds Of Winter will be released by the time ADWD has been adapted.

I'm with you Al! I just go on instinct but I'm with you ;) 

As for the chopping block, I'm extremely curious to see what else gets axed. It depends on how important those characters or storylines are in the last two books.

I could see Aero Hotah, Aeron Greyjoy and Penny being chopped.

Arianne, Doran, Victarion and Euron are essential IMO.

I am not sure about Lord Tarly, you could cut him but they've already spent time with Sam discussing his father.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Al Swearengen wrote:

I could see Aero Hotah, Aeron Greyjoy and Penny being chopped.

Arianne, Doran, Victarion and Euron are essential IMO.

I am not sure about Lord Tarly, you could cut him but they've already spent time with Sam discussing his father.

 I think Lord Tarly might make it in, especially in Brienne storyline. They have name dropped him, and that is always a big flag when a non-onscreen character gets mentioned..he will make an appearance eventually.

I actually think Penny might make it in the show, book Shae was boring, Tv Shae was a lot more interesting. So I think the same case here, Penny was boring in the books but the Tv show writers can make her a lot more interesting.

I have heard that they are considering this young lady for the role, I have seen her work and she could bring a lot to the character.



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Al Swearengen
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

I could see Aero Hotah, Aeron Greyjoy and Penny being chopped.

Arianne, Doran, Victarion and Euron are essential IMO.

I am not sure about Lord Tarly, you could cut him but they've already spent time with Sam discussing his father.

 I think Lord Tarly might make it in, especially in Brienne storyline. They have name dropped him, and that is always a big flag when a non-onscreen character gets mentioned..he will make an appearance eventually.

I actually think Penny might make it in the show, book Shae was boring, Tv Shae was a lot more interesting. So I think the same case here, Penny was boring in the books but the Tv show writers can make her a lot more interesting.

I have heard that they are considering this young lady for the role, I have seen her work and she could bring a lot to the character.

If they hire Kiruna to play Penny that would be perfect.



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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

I could see Aero Hotah, Aeron Greyjoy and Penny being chopped.

Arianne, Doran, Victarion and Euron are essential IMO.

I am not sure about Lord Tarly, you could cut him but they've already spent time with Sam discussing his father.

 I think Lord Tarly might make it in, especially in Brienne storyline. They have name dropped him, and that is always a big flag when a non-onscreen character gets mentioned..he will make an appearance eventually.

I actually think Penny might make it in the show, book Shae was boring, Tv Shae was a lot more interesting. So I think the same case here, Penny was boring in the books but the Tv show writers can make her a lot more interesting.

I have heard that they are considering this young lady for the role, I have seen her work and she could bring a lot to the character.

 Now see, I did not find Penny boring, even though the character is basically a prop for someone else. I think to a certain extent she's for Tyrion what Brienne is for Jaime. It is the other side of someone. The character's lost innocence or lost hope, desire. I wouldn't cut her if I were D&D. But it really is all subjective.



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WIC User Sword Of The Morning pretty much nails it how season 5 will end, and how GRRM is fucked:

"1: Intro to Dorne. Beginning of Kingsmoot. Arya and Tyrion land across the Narrow Sea. Meereen killings become untenable. Awkwardness on the Wall.
2: End of Kingsmoot. Arya begins her training. Tyrion starts down the river, meets Connington. Cersei as Queen Regent asserts herself. Samwell and Gilly set sail for Oldtown.
3: Dany is convinced to marry Hizhdar. Arianne tries to steal Myrcella. Victarion and Euron take the Shield Islands. Davos dispatched to Manderly.
4: Victarion sets off for Dany. Jaime goes to deal with the Tullys. Tyrion has a creepy encounter on the river. Dany’s marriage to Hizhdar. Davos meets Manderly.
5: Arianne is imprisoned. Intro to Quentyn. Samwell runs into Arya in Braavos. Alayne and Littlefinger leave the Vale. Brienne encounters the Gravedigger.
6: Cersei is imprisoned. Arya gives the gift to Dareon. Jon takes in the Wildlings. Stannis sets off to take Winterfell as Manderly arrives there.
7: Tyrion runs into Jorah. Arya goes blind. Samwell and Gilly bump uglies. Jon sends Mance on a mission. Cersei pleads with the High Sparrow.
8: Tyrion and Jorah set sail for Meereen. Killings at Winterfell as winter hits. Killings in the Riverlands by the Brotherhood. Plague hits outside of Meereen.
9: Tyrion arrives in Meereen. Connington arrives in Westeros. Cersei’s walk of shame. Victarion sacrifices virgins at sea. Brienne gets taken by the Brotherhood. Dany flies out of the fighting pit on Drogon.
10: Barristan tries to hold on to power for Dany. Quentyn gets burned. Sam and Gilly arrive in Oldtown. Brienne finds Jaime in the Riverlands. “Arya” smuggled out of Winterfell. Arya regains her sight. Jon gets stabbed. Winter comes for Kevan Lannister.

No clue what happens to Bran."

I think the Greyjoys will be distilled with only one brother ( Fusing Euron and Victarion into a single dude), and Quentyn was a complete waste of time in the books...introduce a lame-ass dude and get him fried by dragons...what the hell was the point?



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Sunday 16th of March 2014 02:21:20 PM

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Macha
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I think the Greyjoys will be distilled with only one brother ( Fusing Euron and Victarion into a single dude), and Quentyn was a complete waste of time in the books...introduce a lame-ass dude and get him fried by dragons...what the hell was the point?

 I'm starting to think merging Euron and Victarion is a good idea. I do wish they'd keep Vic's idiocy though, I love it.

I still think Quentyn was introduced smply as a stupid plot device to switch the Martells from Dany's side to Aegon's or another contender for the throne, but I'm sure D&D can handle it better than it was in the book, *if* they need him at all.  They could simply come up with another reason why the Martells will fight her in Westeros, and keep him out of the story.

 



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Al Swearengen
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God please no don't merge Euron and Victarion that's a horrible idea. I would strongly consider quitting the show if they did that.



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Cary Storm
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
I have heard that they are considering this young lady for the role, I have seen her work and she could bring a lot to the character.

 You heard that because I fancasted it right here.  Unless you have another source. 



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TormundsWoman
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I was looking to see if there IS another source, but I haven't found one. So Lord Storm is probably right. No mention of casting Penny anywhere.

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DonalNoyesArm
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I actually read this rumor when I was still at Westeros.org, chances there they might go with a newcomer, who knows.

Anyways, back on topic, season 5 starts production this Summer so unless the Winds of Winter is done by this Fall...Game Over...

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Macha
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Mkay, just watched Benioff and Weiss beng interviewed on the red carpet yadda yadda. Honestly, to me it looked like they were just trying to be respectful of GRRM's work and effort to finish the books in time, but it's obvious that their belief that GRRM will get through it, while talking about the kids aging and so on, is just their way of saying "Sorry, buddy. Show must go on." Adios, sapito!

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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

So after reading the delusional and ridiculous interview with Vanity Fair where he with a serious face states that he thinks it 's gonna take  3 more seasons to finish the remaining material from Crows and Dance.  From the trailers alone we see that S4 is already chipping into book 4 and  5, so HOW THE FUCK is there enough material left for 3 more seasons? The man has officially lost his mind.  D&D love the show but you clearly see they are ready to wrap things up, mark my words Season  5 will finish book 4 and  5 in their entirety and GRRM is fucked worse than a Fleabottom Trollop.

  That mental image makes me want to puke



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10 seasons and a movie???

choochoo



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GRRM has no idea what he is talking about. A movie? That'll be out in another 6 years if they make season 7. Its like the Entourage movie they are putting out. Does anyone even care now that its like 4 years removed?

I need some of that stuff he has been smoking.



-- Edited by Rygar on Thursday 20th of March 2014 08:09:28 AM

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Al Swearengen
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andrea wrote:

10 seasons and a movie???

choochoo

 edward-norton-laptop-gif.gif



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Saturday 29th of March 2014 01:15:13 PM

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TormundsWoman
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I doubt there's going to be a movie. Still, Benioff & Weiss were incredibly ambiguous at the premier. They started with stuff like "at least 7" which shows Ry that is NOT SET IN STONE after all. Then they went with they are hopeful that Martin's last book will come out before the GoT last season. In another words... I'm not telling anything you don't want to hear.

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DonalNoyesArm
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8 Seasons and a 3 hour movie might be fine with me.

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TormundsWoman
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

8 Seasons and a 3 hour movie might be fine with me.

 Don, stop messing with me! teehee You know I'll be all for it, right?!



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DonalNoyesArm
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TormundsWoman wrote:

 Don, stop messing with me! teehee You know I'll be all for it, right?!

 It seems like a reasonable time table and how awesome would it be to see the final stuff go down on a big movie screen?



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Lyanna Stark
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Thumbs down on the movie idea. Just yuck.

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DonalNoyesArm
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Let me be clear, I was hoping for a "theater experience" like how the Doctor Who 50th anniversary special was screened in movie houses at the same time as the tv show airing.

I am hoping for just that, have the final episode be a big event and why not? People that will run to see it, will certainly be big fans and I can imagine that would a lotta fun!

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GRRM has shoved the dildo so far up his own ass that it seems unlikely he'll be able to pull it out. His time is running out, if he doesn't release the book around the time of season 5 it'll be a lost cause, and even if he does he'll have to become a fast writer in order to finish alongside the show. Best case scenario for him is that they split season 7 a la Breaking Bad (and I like to think it's very possible given that it doesn't seem like they're blowing through some of the ADWD material- Dany mainly) and since it would give the show more time to breathe. It would also fit with them wanting 8 seasons but having to do 7 because of contract renegotiation problems. And D&D have compared the end of the show to Breaking Bad so that's definitely something... So hopefully he has till 2018 to finish up.

In a perfect world GRRM would finish first a couple of months before the show and TWOW would be out this winter, but GRRM is too busy with his dildo and it's not looking good. He's had enough time, it's just that fame and success has made him lose any motivation to sit down and do his job. If he doesn't prove us wrong (which requires TWOW to be out in the first half of 2015 IMO), all the shit people give him will be justified (and I will seriously begin to doubt we'll ever see the end of the series in the books).

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The Kindly Man
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2017 for TwOW ?! Well it says "to meet 2017 release date" so that could mean before 2017.

* This news item has spoilers *

Winds of Winter to Meet 2017 Release Date, Teasers From George R.R. Martin 

 

 



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Al Swearengen
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Ugh that's too far away. George really needs to pull his finger out and get to work. Cancel all of these convention appearances and just focus on finishing the series.



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jentario
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They don't link a source, I want a source.
And if GRRM will really release the book in 2017 I would seriously ROFL at the fact that I ever hoped he has changed. That would just be pathetic.

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Macha
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Seems like a compilation from other interviews, however:
"In all honesty, only George knows how many books there will be in the series and he’s not saying. Indeed, at this stage of his writing, with the many branching pathways of the character’s stories still to intersect, he may not know". eyeroll
How the hell can you NOT know how much space you need to finish stories for characters you've been living with for more than two decades. The man has no idea, he's just making it up as he goes along.



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Atreyu
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jentario wrote:

They don't link a source, I want a source.
And if GRRM will really release the book in 2017 I would seriously ROFL at the fact that I ever hoped he has changed. That would just be pathetic.

 QFFT.

 

These fluff writers for entertainment rags are incredible. If you are going to publish a release date, you damned well better provide a source. It's likely a date either the article's writer or GM's publisher pulled out of their butt. I think it'll be out in 2016, but I'll be more than happy to amplify the message that a TWOW publication date is 2017 and that date is set in stone just to watch the fans froth at the mouth.

 

ETA: Nevermind. This was a minor tempest Jane Johnson created on Twitter months ago when she casually threw out a 2017 date in response to some Tweets by Robin Hobb. The author of this article is an idiot. Move along. Nothing to see here.



-- Edited by Atreyu on Monday 7th of July 2014 12:11:14 PM

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The Kindly Man
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IF he only averages 250 words per day, and we know he doesn't write while travelling (which he does a lot) plus all the other conventions and projects and writing he involves himself in then I think we're looking at 2016 at best, even with all the chapters he wrote and held over from ADWD. End of 2015 if he really pulls his finger out



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jentario
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2017 would be a joke, and not a very good one.
I would go full show apologist. Praise D&D!

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Dolan
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There's NO CHANCE of gurms finishing the books before the show, even if he publishes book 6 next year - which i doubt - e still has book 7 to go - and he's already talking about adding another book to wrap up the story - while HBO will finish season seven in the first semester of 2017. I can hardly believe that after taking eleven years to publish two books that were supposed to be one, then another four years to publish the next, he would be able to publish two new books in such a short two year interval, and im not even counting the possible eight book here.

Get over it folks, he's not going to finish before HBO, and i'm starting to get accostumed to the idea that he won't finish at all. It's one thing when you have to do something to get yourself out of the hole, as he didd when he gave up on being a holywood writer, it's a whole different thing when youre a millionaire who'll never have to work again in your life, different sets of incentives. If you can't accept this idea, i really think you're in denial, so i'll just check this thread in three years and see what you'll have to say about it then.


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DonalNoyesArm
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Many writers hate writing under deadlines, for when they are pushed by imposed requirements it saps out their creative abilities. Most writers do their best work when do write for themselves on their own timeline.

I think this is exactly what is happening to GRRM now, the more pressure he gets from the outside the more he procratinates.

And he only has himself to blame for this predicament, when he sold the rights to an unfiished book series....he shot himself in the foot right then and there.

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TormundsWoman
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jentario wrote:

2017 would be a joke, and not a very good one.
I would go full show apologist. Praise D&D!

 But it was never about the show over the books, was it?! Not when it came to the show apologist issue and publishing TWoW. anyway, I'm hopeful.



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