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Topic: Episode 410 - The Children *NO book Spoilers*

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andrea
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RE: Episode 410 - The Children *NO book Spoilers*
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Black as Snow wrote:

I don't know whether the issue is casting or writing or acting, and it doesn't matter which it is.

Like Macha I think Hinds and D&D knows exactly what they are doing with this character but Mance Ryder didn´t get the time he deserved for all the reasons we know, budget and bladiblah so maybe for non readers Mance turned out weak  and his leadership inexplicable. Yup, that could be, didn´t think about it, can´t see it from that perspective.

 



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As usual too many threads to tie up in one episode but they did it pretty well.

The major disappointment was this WeirwoodGreenseerGod guy, pretty sure they had an intricate and interesting description of him in the books with root dendrils growing out and through him etc. Very disappointing.

The Pirates of Caribbean skeletons attacking was a bit kitsch, surely in the ice cold there'd be some more flesh preserved (lol), just too many films with that look. The cavalry attacking was also a bit silly - where were the 100,000 wildlings, the mammoths, the giants all in the same battle in the book? - looked like they were just fighting 100 of em.

Tyrion's revenge seemed to lack something, some mmmph or jenesaisquoi, even though it was pretty good. Tywin never particularly looked shocked or afraid, couldn't give us the satisfaction dammit!!!

The rest was all pretty good and the made-for-TV innovations - Brienne taking out Hound - were pretty seamless and worked well. Seems a shame to wait a whole nutha year for the next bit ...

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happyplace.someecards.com/got-recap-season-4/if-game-of-thrones-took-place-entirely-on-facebook-the-season-4-finale/

Facebook recaaaap!

dance

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Dolan
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Call Mcconaghey was the best!



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sid
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"I've been watching you your entire life," said the three-eyed crow. "Except about five minutes ago, where I could have sent the mage girl to defend you sooner. But Jojen was a jackass anyway."



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DonalNoyesArm
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sid wrote:

"I've been watching you your entire life," said the three-eyed crow. "Except about five minutes ago, where I could have sent the mage girl to defend you sooner. But Jojen was a jackass anyway."

 I know, right?!



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Rygar
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I was pretty drunk the first time I watched that I thought Jojen was stabbing himself.

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Macha
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

happyplace.someecards.com/got-recap-season-4/if-game-of-thrones-took-place-entirely-on-facebook-the-season-4-finale/

Facebook recaaaap!

dance

  This was really good, Don. "I didn't find out until my funeral."



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andrea
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 The last 3 FB recaps made me



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DonalNoyesArm
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I have been thinking how naive Brienne was. She honestly thought that simply walking up, mentioning she is there to escort Arya to safety would complete her mission.

I loved how she struggled to explain herself and started to panic when Arya did not trust her at al, completely blindsided that someone would not trust her. Brienne seems to think her honorable quest was self-evident, poor summer child. She has much to learn still.



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 02:09:07 AM

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Macha
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I have been thinking how naive Brienne was. She honestly thought that simply walking up, mentioning she is there to escort Arya to safety would complete her mission.

 Ah true. Loved that scene and seeing how it all went to hell even among people with good intentions towards the same person. In her defense though, she reacted the way any one of us would have. She didn't even start her quest by thinking Arya was alive, let alone finding her. She had no idea what Arya had become, so of course she thought she was saving a helpless girl from the hands of a ruthless kidnapper. But The Hound's line about safety was brilliant, and very true. What would she have done with Arya once she saved her? Or with Sansa? It's infuriating that even in the books you don't get one line of Brienne thinking about this, and you just know her quest is doomed from the start.



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Al Swearengen
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I have been thinking how naive Brienne was. She honestly thought that simply walking up, mentioning she is there to escort Arya to safety would complete her mission.

I loved how she struggled to explain herself and started to panic when Arya did not trust her at al, completely blindsided that someone would not trust her. Brienne seems to think her honorable quest was self-evident, poor summer child. She has much to learn still.



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 02:09:07 AM

That's what happens when certain individuals create scenes that aren't organic.

david-and-dan.jpg



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Dolan
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Actually she acted exactly as book Brienne would: "I have been thinking how naive Brienne was. She honestly thought that simply walking up, mentioning she is there to escort Arya to safety would complete her mission. " This was she in the books, that's why D&D made the connection there Al, crappy source material is crappy, what D&D were basically doing was simply follow the book's logic until inevitably burst into shreds.

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DonalNoyesArm
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Al Swearengen wrote:
DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I have been thinking how naive Brienne was. She honestly thought that simply walking up, mentioning she is there to escort Arya to safety would complete her mission.

I loved how she struggled to explain herself and started to panic when Arya did not trust her at al, completely blindsided that someone would not trust her. Brienne seems to think her honorable quest was self-evident, poor summer child. She has much to learn still.



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 02:09:07 AM

That's what happens when certain individuals create scenes that aren't organic.

 I was complimenting the scene...it was perfectly organic. calmyotits

 



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Rygar
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D&D are way hotter than George.

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Al Swearengen
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Does anyone else have issues with Cersei's scene with Tywin?

Her children and power mean everything to her and yet she was gonna sacrifice it all so she could bonk Jaime out in the open disbelief As soon as Cersei sang her story

1) Tywin would abandon her and take his troops back to the rock.

2) Tommen's marriage with Marge would go down the toilet.

3) House Tyrell would seize the throne for themselves.

4) Open rebellion would once again start.

5) People would flock to Stannis since he'd now be the true heir to the throne.

6) Tywin would probably get rid of Cersei himself.

7) Myrcella would be a useless guest/prisoner for Dorne.

It's just another example of the short sightedness of D & D.

benioff_weiss_bff.jpg



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Rygar
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Yes. She was manipulating them both. I didn't believe that Cersei actually would be with Jaime. Just as Jaime didn't believe it either. Tywin would have squashed it as another rumor or outright lie from Cersei to avoid marriage to Loras. You don't think that all of Westeros already knows that Cersei and Jaime bang?

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Al Swearengen
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Rygar wrote:

Yes. She was manipulating them both. I didn't believe that Cersei actually would be with Jaime. Just as Jaime didn't believe it either. Tywin would have squashed it as another rumor or outright lie from Cersei to avoid marriage to Loras. You don't think that all of Westeros already knows that Cersei and Jaime bang?

Some probably believe it, just like some believed Tyrion was a lecherous monster, there's always nuts in society who'll believe anything.

It's just ridiculous how dumb they made Cersei look, she's never been the sharpest knife in the drawer but she's not that stupid.

They even made Tywin look like a wimp in that scene.



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Rygar
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You don't think Tywin knows the truth? You don't think Tywin has a plan if either one of his children came out to the public about the incest? Tywin subdues the truth because accepting it shows weakness.

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Al Swearengen
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Rygar wrote:

You don't think Tywin knows the truth? You don't think Tywin has a plan if either one of his children came out to the public about the incest? Tywin subdues the truth because accepting it shows weakness.

Book Tywin would of shot Cersei down before she even attempted to blackmail him. TV Tywin on the other hand who knows.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Al Swearengen wrote:

Does anyone else have issues with Cersei's scene with Tywin?

It's just another example of the short sightedness of D & D.

 Incorrect, she admitted EXACTLY the same thing to Ned Stark in season one, at least with her threat to her father she knows that even *if* Tywin believed her, he would keep it to himself. In Ned's case she did a huge gamble, there was no guarantee that Robert would get injured or even die on his hunt, she was very lucky that time.

Her actions are consistent, so if you are gonna keep knocking D&D you are gonna have to pull better examples, Cersei's actions was not one of them.



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sid
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It's a bummer that Yara and her shit-stained rocks did not appear again in S4.

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Al Swearengen
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

Does anyone else have issues with Cersei's scene with Tywin?

It's just another example of the short sightedness of D & D.

 Incorrect, she admitted EXACTLY the same thing to Ned Stark in season one, at least with her threat to her father she knows that even *if* Tywin believed her, he would keep it to himself. In Ned's case she did a huge gamble, there was no guarantee that Robert would get injured or even die on his hunt, she was very lucky that time.

Her actions are consistent, so if you are gonna keep knocking D&D you are gonna have to pull better examples, Cersei's actions was not one of them.

Not really. Cersei had placed Lancel as Robert's squire for a reason, do you really think she was going to sit by and continue to be married to that drunk?

I'll admit she did attempt to call Ned's bluff but that's only because she was appealing to his good nature and kindness. There is no way book Cersei would be even foolish enough to approach her father like that, he's one of if not the most feared and intelligent man in Westeros. Tywin wouldn't hide behind denial and fear of the truth he'd lock her up in a tower or get the fuck out of dodge.



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DonalNoyesArm
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Al Swearengen wrote:

Not really. Cersei had placed Lancel as Robert's squire for a reason, do you really think she was going to sit by and continue to be married to that drunk?

 All Lancel did was give Robert stongwine during the hunt, that by itself would not guarantee his elimination on that same day that Ned learned the truth of her. Again, a very risky gamble that paid off in this case.

Spoiler



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Monday 23rd of June 2014 01:04:36 PM

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Rygar wrote:

Yes. She was manipulating them both. I didn't believe that Cersei actually would be with Jaime. Just as Jaime didn't believe it either. Tywin would have squashed it as another rumor or outright lie from Cersei to avoid marriage to Loras. You don't think that all of Westeros already knows that Cersei and Jaime bang?

 Ry tells it true. This was never about Jaime. She lied when she made it about them, she never once mentioned she wants to be with him when talking to Tywin.

Weird we're even debating this, I thought it's obvious show-Cersei is so much more complex than her book counterpart.



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Al Swearengen
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Macha wrote:
Rygar wrote:

Yes. She was manipulating them both. I didn't believe that Cersei actually would be with Jaime. Just as Jaime didn't believe it either. Tywin would have squashed it as another rumor or outright lie from Cersei to avoid marriage to Loras. You don't think that all of Westeros already knows that Cersei and Jaime bang?

 Ry tells it true. This was never about Jaime. She lied when she made it about them, she never once mentioned she wants to be with him when talking to Tywin.

Weird we're even debating this, I thought it's obvious show-Cersei is so much more complex than her book counterpart.

I just don't see that at all. Show Cersei thinly resembles the book character, she's become a reckless drunk. These days I just view the character as Lena Headey's interpretation a spoiled queen.

There's still a lot of AFFC material to adapt, maybe they can redeem the character.



-- Edited by Al Swearengen on Monday 23rd of June 2014 01:43:53 PM

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Dolan
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Exactly Al, there's still a lot of crappy AFFC material D&D will have to work hard to improve on.



-- Edited by Dolan on Monday 23rd of June 2014 04:59:46 PM

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I agree with Ry's assessment.  From the Unsullied perspective, it was a good feint.  I think everyone sensed that Tywin had to die, and after Oberyn's death, Cersei was my frontrunner for who would be behind it.  Even though it was a foolish move, it made sense as her last ditch effort to reason with her father regarding her impending marriage before deciding to kill him.  And when she failed, she tried to manipulate Jaime into backing her murder plot.  I would be surprised if anyone, including Jaime, believed her actions were sincere.  I thought it made sense, since I had no foreknowledge that Tywin was going to die at Tyrion's hand.  The question is whether Cersei will continue the charade in Season 5 now that Tywin is dead.  How much will she need Jaime's support against the threats to her power.



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Hey guys, this is a spoiler free thread. Please don't ruin it for the non-book readers by offering commentary on the books, even if you believe you're being vague.

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Black as Snow
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Thanks Cary. lightbringer Just to add something relevant to this thread, that is a hot avatar. faint

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Al Swearengen
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Black as Snow wrote:

Thanks Cary. lightbringer Just to add something relevant to this thread, that is a hot avatar. faint

 Sorry it was my fault, I blurted out the scene in which Cersei and Margaery have a bush competition.



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sid
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Al Swearengen wrote:

 Sorry it was my fault, I blurted out the scene in which Cersei and Margaery have a bush competition.

 

banderas



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sid wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

 Sorry it was my fault, I blurted out the scene in which Cersei and Margaery have a bush competition.

 

banderas

 banderas



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The Kindly Man
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I have been thinking how naive Brienne was. She honestly thought that simply walking up, mentioning she is there to escort Arya to safety would complete her mission.

I loved how she struggled to explain herself and started to panic when Arya did not trust her at al, completely blindsided that someone would not trust her. Brienne seems to think her honorable quest was self-evident, poor summer child. She has much to learn still.



-- Edited by DonalNoyesArm on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 02:09:07 AM

 Loved this 

wni1Tja.jpg



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That's great KM

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The Kindly Man
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Poor Hot Pie, must have been working on that for weeks. Weird though isn't it? Why introduce the wolf bread if they weren't going to use it? Checkhov's Gun anyone?



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The Kindly Man wrote:

Poor Hot Pie, must have been working on that for weeks. Weird though isn't it? Why introduce the wolf bread if they weren't going to use it? Checkhov's Gun anyone?

 D & D wanted that fan fiction fight scene.

 

0.jpg



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jentario
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David looks like he shit his pants

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Al Swearengen
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jentario wrote:

David looks like he shit his pants

Spoiler



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jentario
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Weiss looks like he is smelling it

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Macha
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The Kindly Man wrote:

Poor Hot Pie, must have been working on that for weeks. Weird though isn't it? Why introduce the wolf bread if they weren't going to use it? Checkhov's Gun anyone?

 Hah, loved that pic.

However, it never once crossed my mind the wolf bread was meant to be used later. They were traveling on the road for days, what were they supposed to do, keep it till it turned stale? To me, it just showed how much Hot Pie still cared about his friends, and that he thought of Arya often enough to keep practicing on his wolf bread. It was a sweet throw-back, and nothing more.

Besides, as naive Brienne may seem, IMO the narrative asked this of her character - she is *supposed* to get in trouble for her affiliation with Jaime, even though we the viewers know both her and Jaime's intentions are nothing but noble. Of course her first reaction is to be honest, she trusts and values Jaime now, he is the one who not only sent her on this quest but gave her the best protection he could from afar, but now it's exactly this protection that gets her into trouble.

Spoiler



-- Edited by Macha on Friday 27th of June 2014 12:29:29 PM

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