Cosca, I think they got the right idea. In fact I think they got the perfect idea: "die by the sword", as it were. I just don't think the execution of it all was good enough. Many talk about his skill: he's a veteran, trained knight of superb skill to hear Jaime talk. And he came in late to the fight when the Sons should have been tired and he - rested. It didn't look like he took out 10 of them to be honest. But I could be wrong.
He also had a bit of a bad set up. Queensguard, walking the city streets alone, especially knowing the dangers, with no armor?! Didn't Dany say that they should all walk in groups or something? Am I suppose to just overlook that his experience should tell him about the risk he's taking? I mean this comes on the hot heels of the "hissing" hate scene and the slashing of that poor Unsullied throat. I think they could have done better that's all. It was a good idea.
-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Tuesday 5th of May 2015 12:42:34 PM
Queensguard, walking the city streets alone, especially knowing the dangers, with no armor?! Didn't Dany say that they should all walk in groups or something? Am I suppose to just overlook that his experience should tell him about the risk he's taking? I mean this comes on the hot heels of the "hissing" hate scene and the slashing of that poor Unsullied throat. I think they could have done better that's all. It was a good idea.
True, but also remember the scene with him walking the streets didn't come out of nowhere. It came after a scene that specifically talked about his youth where he did the same thing with Rhaegar, where supposedly they would just blend in the crowd and enjoy the feeling of being just two simple young men, and not a prince with his bodyguard. Dany sends him to "sing a song for her", which meant just that - take a break and relax.
Personally, I didn't once think the scene looked unrealistic, not even the Unsullied getting butchered in that hallway. They are patrolling the streets using the tactics they've always used - and maybe that's the point. Maybe in light of what happened, Dany will be forced to reconsider their purpose and their training. I doubt she (or anyone of her advisors) really took the Sons as a serious threat, and this is the price they're paying.
On the other hand, I've never been too attached of Barristan's character in the books and always considered him as a pretty boring character in the show despite the actor's performance - which was very good. Sometimes his character felt a bit redundant, especially next to Iain Glenn's Jorah, IMO.
And from a story point of view, it was about time Dany would suffer some losses after so many victories, so I'm actually happy things shook up a bit.
Ok, some quick thoughts, if I remember the entire episode.
First the not-so-good and truly bad. Jaime and Bronn. Sorry, I'm not buying this duo and to be quite honest, I've had enough of Bronn-The-Eternal-Sidekick ever since he was teaming up with Tyrion. Yes, he's a really fun character with clever lines - but that's it, hence my problem with him. To me, he adds nothing to the story anymore (trying to think of a time when he really did, hmm). I think and hope it's time for him to go. I agree with everyone complaining about the Sand Snakes scene - Obara's monologue ruined it BUT despite that, I think she's the most interesting Snake we've met so far. I hope that's all of them. Oh and I don't get what do you people have against Ellaria's acting and her hair. I kinda like it.
The good and very good: Stannis and Shireen - perfection. I know everybody's expecting for something to happen to Shireen, but I think the reverse is more likely. I'd be surprised if Stannis survives the season, but he'll try to protect her at all costs, and his death should bring something positive for his daughter, in the endgame. Neither GRRM nor D&D are cruel for cruelty's sake. They have no reason to introduce such a sad and cripple character with such a brilliant mind like Shireen, just to kill her off to make her father - a character not so popular with the majority of viewers - suffer. But yes, I expect his idiotic wife will try to hurt her (I expect this could somehow tie in with the Jon-Mel scene), which will end badly for her.
Sansa in the crypts - likey likey. What was with the feather, have we seen a raven going down there in S1 or in one of Bran's visions? Interesting story from LF, and I'm curious to see how his meeting with Cersei will go down. If he remembers to pack his jetpack he should be in KL by E6.
Tyrion and Jorah have a lot of potential together, but I was too distracted by the scenery which was very similar to one of our lakes here and it completely took me out of the moment.
Now, Jon and Mel's scene, I could have done without, but no harm done. It could prove more important down the line.
Oh and The Faith Militant - again, sorry, but I really liked it, and the way the story's going, especially if it has wider implications for KL. Everything was peaceful there for far too long, time to bring some drama. Margaery's starting to piss me off (not a fan of the acting this season), but I enjoy watching Tommen every time, and Cersei is also a delight. The woman is delirious, it's obvious the High Sparrow is playing her much more than she is thinks she's playing him. This can only be bad for KL *and* for her. Can't wait, can't wait!
Oki, enough, I can't remember anything else.
-- Edited by Macha on Tuesday 5th of May 2015 01:16:24 PM
I was thinking about the crypt scene with Sansa. She tells the official version of the Rhaegar/Lyanna saga, and the parallels with her own experience struck me as really funny. Sansa was also betrothed to another and attended a tourney where a gorgeous knight swept her off her feet with flowers. I'm pretty sure the last thing on her mind in those moments were whether either of them were engaged. The word "rape" rung kind of hollow when Sansa said it.
I was asked in chat what I thought about all the mentions of Rhaegar. The show has taken pains to bring him to life this season. I assumed the purpose was to give us a picture of Dorne's issues with the other families of Westeros/Essos. Their princess was spurned and humiliated by Rhaegar in favor of a Stark girl before being murdered by the Lannisters. They have reason to feel resentment towards a lot of families, and that may come into play this season with the Lannisters and in the future with Dany. I'm not sure that it has any greater significance.
-- Edited by Black as Snow on Tuesday 5th of May 2015 11:23:06 PM
Jon Snow was so amusing trying to dissuade Melisandre from her pursuit of his "I made a vow!" Um...no. "I'm in love with someone else!" Eeeew. "You're boyfriend will be really pissed." Lol.
Yeah, no. Poor Jon needs some Viagra to get him past his...issue. Either that or she could put leeches in his bed.
And back to some speculation before the season...why does Mel want Jon if he doesn't have royal blood? I know...the Rhaegar theory. I hope that's not what's going on here because lame. And going back to what I just wrote about Sansa, it makes me wonder whether Sansa will come up with the same theory as the fans. True or not, it would make for an interesting reunion if Jon comes south with Stannis the Mannis.
Black as Snow wrote:why does Mel want Jon if he doesn't have royal blood? I know...the Rhaegar theory. I hope that's not what's going on here because lame. And going back to what I just wrote about Sansa, it makes me wonder whether Sansa will come up with the same theory as the fans.
Hah, I can't help but laugh because they only needed two episodes to pretty much sum up everything from the books that made readers come up with that theory. Truth be told, I think it's more than plausible, although I'm with BaSi... lame is the name. *sigh*
Great poInt BaS, and one I missed. I don't think it's lame at all. If it's true then Mel would know it or at least have an inkling. In every scene when she mentions royal blood there is sex. However, the scene with Jon still keeps it ambiguous. Is she trying to seduce Jon to persuade him to go with Stannis or is she confirming her suspicion of his bloodlIne. The "you know nothing" has never loomed larger. I just love how all the naysayers are thrashing that scene for the unnecessary nudity, yet missed what could be the most significant scene in Jon's story to date.
-- Edited by Rygar on Wednesday 6th of May 2015 08:10:57 AM
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
I am with Ry, it's not lame at all. Melly Sanders was not seducing Jon because she had a carnal desire for him. Just like in season 2, with Stannis and season 3 with Gendry who....whoops is Roberts bastard with Kingsblood.
Blood magic is a real thing in Westeros and a powerful ( if unwieldly) weapon.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
I just wish it weren't so obvious. It has all the makings of a happy ending, dammit! My other concerns were for Aemon, who definitely has king's blood, and Mance, who was unquestionably a king. It's interesting that Melisandre didn't take advantage of Mance's captivity before cooking him. Other than trying to seduce Jon, Mel is really hit and miss so far on taking advantages of the blood magic resources at her disposal at the Wall.
Needless to say I loved the Mel & Jon scene. I am thoroughly biased, of course. I have been rooting for this non existent OTP since ASoIaF was in diapers after all. I have a weakness for these things
While it was obvious she wanted something from him, I think she also tested Jon. Tempted him to check out his reactions. The "You know nothing" was genius. Why? Because while Jon may not be persuaded by sex (because he didn't try it with Mel, that's why!), or by visions in the fire, he just gave away his weakest point. Ygritte. And Mel telling him that line.... Muahahah she knows a LOT now. Chances of her finding out that's what Ygritte used to say to him are really small. It was Jon & Ygritte's thing. So she just let him know there that she can get into his head and she knows things. I thing she's trying to gain his trust. I have more on that but can't bc : books.
Basi, the Rhaegar is everyone crackpot theory? I don't think Jon Snow is Rhaegar! I haven't heard this one.
-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Wednesday 6th of May 2015 10:01:23 AM
I just wish it weren't so obvious. It has all the makings of a happy ending, dammit! My other concerns were for Aemon, who definitely has king's blood, and Mance, who was unquestionably a king. It's interesting that Melisandre didn't take advantage of Mance's captivity before cooking him. Other than trying to seduce Jon, Mel is really hit and miss so far on taking advantages of the blood magic resources at her disposal at the Wall.
But if you don't know the theory then it isn't that obvious. Only that there is more to Jon than we know. The seeds have been planted.
Not true, she sacrificed Mance to the Fire God, however Jonny boy fucked that up for her.
Aemon can't get it up anymore.
-- Edited by Rygar on Wednesday 6th of May 2015 10:29:10 AM
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
Could be! And your point about Mance is interesting. It didn't occur to me that burning him could also result in good magical mojo. I thought of it in the context of what we've seen so far...blood and
That makes me think about Shireen. I was wondering during the off season whether Mel and Selyse would try sacrificing her. I think the scene this episode showed that Stannis will fight for her and protect her from whatever comes. I wonder whether that will create a rift with Mel. She clearly wants blood magic to aid in the fight against the Boltons, so we may see some desperate acts in the next couple of weeks.
Yeah, the way they propped out Shireen and Stannis and gave them a cute and loving scene.....something messed up will happen to either of them this season...and I AM NOT HAPPY!
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Not really, like Tyrion pointed out before: "Just now kings are dying like flies".
Kingsblood seems to carry bad luck with it too.
Actually, I was thinking of the ending of Space Balls. All of a sudden, our dashing hero discovers he's a prince and gets his groove on with Dany. They defeat the White Walkers for all time with dragon fire and rule Westeros and Essos with justice and benevolence, and everyone lives happily ever after. How awful!
Not really, like Tyrion pointed out before: "Just now kings are dying like flies".
Kingsblood seems to carry bad luck with it too.
Actually, I was thinking of the ending of Space Balls. All of a sudden, our dashing hero discovers he's a prince and gets his groove on with Dany. They defeat the White Walkers for all time with dragon fire and rule Westeros and Essos with justice and benevolence, and everyone lives happily ever after. How awful!
How perfect! Because Pizza is gonna send out for you!
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
Not really, like Tyrion pointed out before: "Just now kings are dying like flies".
Kingsblood seems to carry bad luck with it too.
Actually, I was thinking of the ending of Space Balls. All of a sudden, our dashing hero discovers he's a prince and gets his groove on with Dany. They defeat the White Walkers for all time with dragon fire and rule Westeros and Essos with justice and benevolence, and everyone lives happily ever after. How awful!
That's probably the end gurms had in mind and what D&D are going to deliver.
Disagree about Shireen though, last ep melisandre almost turned to the camera to talk to us when she chastised Selyse about Shireen. And the Stannis scene with her where he pretty much say, fuck no i'm not selling you out!
I'm paraphrasin' but what i got from that is that even if Melisadre tries to burn her or leech her or something Stannis is not gonna let her. (unless he goes to Winterfell without her, then all bets are off)
Actually, I was thinking of the ending of Space Balls. All of a sudden, our dashing hero discovers he's a prince and gets his groove on with Dany. They defeat the White Walkers for all time with dragon fire and rule Westeros and Essos with justice and benevolence, and everyone lives happily ever after. How awful!
Ugh, THIS. I'm hoping D&D won't go there though.
IMO, Dany needs to die in the final fight, and fine, if they defeat the White Walkers and the Watch is no longer needed, then Jon can rule whatever the hell he wants. I can live with that, if I can't get my ideal ending with Shireen on the Iron throne.
Disagree about Shireen though, last ep melisandre almost turned to the camera to talk to us when she chastised Selyse about Shireen. And the Stannis scene with her where he pretty much say, fuck no i'm not selling you out!
Pretty sure she chastised Selyse because Shireen's blood makes her important, however her importance doesn't reside in her being kept alive. I took it as a hint that she's already thinking about sacrificing her, if needs be. But I doubt Melisandre would be the one to come up to Stannis and flatly tell him what she's planning. I think she'll work through Selyse, and let her take the blame if things go wrong. And they will...hopefully.
Mel definitely sees Shireen as a tool for magic. I think Jon Snow should just take one for the team and sacrifice himself on the altar of so-much-sex so that Mel gets what she wants, Shireen and Aemon are safe and he learns something new. It is only fair. #JustSaying
Disagree about Shireen though, last ep melisandre almost turned to the camera to talk to us when she chastised Selyse about Shireen. And the Stannis scene with her where he pretty much say, fuck no i'm not selling you out!
Pretty sure she chastised Selyse because Shireen's blood makes her important, however her importance doesn't reside in her being kept alive. I took it as a hint that she's already thinking about sacrificing her, if needs be. But I doubt Melisandre would be the one to come up to Stannis and flatly tell him what she's planning. I think she'll work through Selyse, and let her take the blame if things go wrong. And they will...hopefully.
hence: "(unless he goes to Winterfell without her, then all bets are off)"
But Ry, they are off the books in at least several storylines and more than that the show seems to be doing its own thing in regards to who they kill or not. I think bookreaders can definitely speculate with Basi as to what happens in many regards, no? I mean I hope so because I have no idea what Brienne will do for example up North.
I loved the episode. Aside from Barrsitan's death(?) and the Sand Snakes meeting in the middle of nowhere (seriously, in all of Dorne, did they have to meet in a place which looks exactly like where Jaime and Bronn are? they have a bunch of cities, towns and the Water Gardens and they meet there?! this is not what I expect from the same show that gave us the Volantis bridge), it was great all around. Stannis and Shireen, Littlefinger and Sansa, Melisandre and Jon, Jaime and Bronn delivering, Tyrion and Jorah initiating what will be another of the show's dynamic duos and all the shit happening in King's Landing (Cersei vs Margery is getting out of control). I just loved the episode.
Mel wanted another shadow baby. That's why she said that love between men and women can create light and cast shadows. She wanted to kill Roose and Ramsay with another baby assassin.
Mel wanted another shadow baby. That's why she said that love between men and women can create light and cast shadows. She wanted to kill Roose and Ramsay with another baby assassin.
Ya know if she just *told* him, yeesh!
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Right, and she needs Kings Blood to Make them. Why fuck Jon if Ned Stark and some tavern wench are his parents? Unless Jon Snow is secretly Prince Lonestar.
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"If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt." - Dean Martin
Um...no.
Eeeew.
Lol.
I hope that's not what's going on here because lame. And going back to what I just wrote about Sansa, it makes me wonder whether Sansa will come up with the same theory as the fans. 
My other concerns were for Aemon, who definitely has king's blood, and Mance, who was unquestionably a king. It's interesting that Melisandre didn't take advantage of Mance's captivity before cooking him. Other than trying to seduce Jon, Mel is really hit and miss so far on taking advantages of the blood magic resources at her disposal at the Wall.
I am thoroughly biased, of course. I have been rooting for this non existent OTP since ASoIaF was in diapers after all. I have a weakness for these things 
How awful! 
OMG, it is so fun finally speculating with my peeps!
Never mind. Killjoy.
