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Topic: Episode 509 - "The Dance Of Dragons" *No Book Spoilers*

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Rygar
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RE: Episode 509 - "The Dance Of Dragons" *No Book Spoilers*
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Stannis thoughts

"I wonder if charred horse tastes as good as charred Shireen?"

Stannis thoughts

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DonalNoyesArm
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Season 4 finale was packed and pretty awesome. Lets hope this season ends big.

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Al Swearengen
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I barely even remember what happened in the S4 finale. All I recall was the massive absence of LS.



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DonalNoyesArm
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AL! spank

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Black as Snow
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Al Swearengen wrote:

Ugh Bas' views in this thread are exactly why I am taking the contrarian high road.

 I'm just a smelly unsullied, so my views are totally illegitimate anyway, RIGHT AL? 



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Black as Snow wrote:

 And Jaqen is so humorless this season, after having such a playful nature in season 2. WTF? He kind of sucks.

 I am guessing here, but Arya's teacher in the house of black and white never identified himself as Jaquen. He said "I am no-one, and that is what you must become". The room of many faces proves that any faceless man could've taken the "Jaquen face" and worn it. That would account for his drastic personality change this season.



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Black as Snow
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Good theory, Donnie! That would completely explain it. I wish they had kept him the same though.

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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
Black as Snow wrote:

 And Jaqen is so humorless this season, after having such a playful nature in season 2. WTF? He kind of sucks.

 I am guessing here, but Arya's teacher in the house of black and white never identified himself as Jaquen. He said "I am no-one, and that is what you must become". The room of many faces proves that any faceless man could've taken the "Jaquen face" and worn it. That would account for his drastic personality change this season.

 It was even more explicit than that. He even says "A man is not Jaqen H'Gar". I guess he just wanted to make Arya more comfortable



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Black as Snow wrote:

 And Jaqen is so humorless this season, after having such a playful nature in season 2. WTF? He kind of sucks.

 Hey Basi ... It isn't Jaqen , that's why. It's just the same face . It's the dude who opened the door to her the first time ?

 

Oh ! Don and  Cosca already replied !

 



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jentario
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Jon and the Wildlings coming through the Wall rather than just walking outside of it was done for two reasons:
1- To create the tension with Thorne, and to prove that he actually IS loyal. Which might be important later.
2- Symbolically, seeing the Wildlings come from under the Wall and out beyond it is more satisfying

But of course it has no viable excuse from a story/character perspective. They could have tried at least, maybe say that Stannis's ship captains had to drop them off half way to Eastwatch for some reason.

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Re Jaqen: Lol thats so not true. Its the same Character. Speaks the same. Mannerisms are the same. If that was the case then they would have not used him to return. They put in a familiar character to be less confusing. He says he is not Jaqen just as Arya is not Arya Stark. Why reuse faces? He is just a terrible actor and has zero chemistry with Maisie, an overrated actor who sucks this season.



-- Edited by Rygar on Tuesday 9th of June 2015 08:30:06 AM

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Rygar
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jentario wrote:

Jon and the Wildlings coming through the Wall rather than just walking outside of it was done for two reasons:
1- To create the tension with Thorne, and to prove that he actually IS loyal. Which might be important later.
2- Symbolically, seeing the Wildlings come from under the Wall and out beyond it is more satisfying

But of course it has no viable excuse from a story/character perspective. They could have tried at least, maybe say that Stannis's ship captains had to drop them off half way to Eastwatch for some reason.

 I think only hardcore fans who look at Westeros maps would even care a little about it.   It was a good scene and like you said, significant for Jon and Al. 



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Black as Snow
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Rygar wrote:
I think only hardcore fans who look at Westeros maps would even care a little about it.   It was a good scene and like you said, significant for Jon and Al. 

 Or people who have been watching the opening credits for five years.    But legitimate points.  Thorne's actions are important and may become moreso.  And if it makes for a better story, then it's totally forgivable and doesn't have to make perfect sense.

It occurred to me that Jon is now expendable.   I don't think they'll kill him yet, but his story arc could end at any time.  I always thought of him as protected, just as Dany is, because he was essential to the storyline at and north of the Wall. That's no longer the case.  I like the added uncertainty. 



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It seems geography is always a challenge in fantasy, just like Tolkien always had to come up with lame excuses why they couldn't just fly to Mount Doom and drop the ring in it.



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Black as Snow wrote:
Rygar wrote:
I think only hardcore fans who look at Westeros maps would even care a little about it.   It was a good scene and like you said, significant for Jon and Al. 

 Or people who have been watching the opening credits for five years.    But legitimate points.  Thorne's actions are important and may become moreso.  And if it makes for a better story, then it's totally forgivable and doesn't have to make perfect sense.

It occurred to me that Jon is now expendable.   I don't think they'll kill him yet, but his story arc could end at any time.  I always thought of him as protected, just as Dany is, because he was essential to the storyline at and north of the Wall. That's no longer the case.  I like the added uncertainty. 

 Who watches the credits anymore?  Im either peeing or pouring or packing.   But I dont think they show where Eastwatch is....



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Black as Snow
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Truth, Donnie. Distance and geography definitely become issues when you have a fairly well-developed world.

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Rygar
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Um.

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Black as Snow
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Yes, Ry? Did you need to add something?

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Rygar
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Yes that you are all wrong.

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Black as Snow
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Thanks.

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JapieQ
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I rate this episode a 2 out of 10, what a terrible mess this show is.

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Rygar
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Agreed Jap. Terribly inconsistent season.

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Black as Snow
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Awww, come on. It's at least a 6. There were some very good scenes.

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Rygar wrote:

Re Jaqen: Lol thats so not true. Its the same Character. Speaks the same. Mannerisms are the same. If that was the case then they would have not used him to return. They put in a familiar character to be less confusing. He says he is not Jaqen just as Arya is not Arya Stark. Why reuse faces? He is just a terrible actor and has zero chemistry with Maisie, an overrated actor who sucks this season.

 Haha, after each episode this season I have to come here and agree with something Ry said.  

Wouldn't exactly say he's a terrible actor, and actually I did find him funny in  many scenes ("perhaps that's the reason a man is thin"), but Arya's scenes this season just don't work, on any level. 



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Rygar
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Black as Snow wrote:

Awww, come on. It's at least a 6. There were some very good scenes.

 Ill have to rewatch but it was one of the worst this season.  Bottom three so far.  Only thing that salvaged it was all of Stannis and Doran.



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Jap and Ry need to lay off the wacky tobackey.



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Rygar
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We are just not delusional. :)

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I am at a pretty even keel...some of ya'll will go from "best episode ever, to worst episode ever" one week apart. 



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Black as Snow
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Only when it's true, Donnie. This season has been a disappointment so far, but it's still been pretty good. I had hoped it could rival season 4, but it hasn't. We'll see if the final episode turns things around, but it still won't be enough to make up for the mediocrity of Dorne.

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Rygar
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That just shows how inconsistent this season is. Stick with D&D and the director of ep 7 and 8. It will all be good.

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Black as Snow wrote:

This season has been a disappointment so far, but it's still been pretty good.

 You are lucky you haven't read the pooks Basi, I am gobsmacked they were able to stitch anything semi-watchable from those literary train-wrecks. 



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Black as Snow
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They'd better tap him to direct more episodes next season. A lot more episodes. Of course, he also had the best material of the season (so far) to direct.

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Rygar
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Even without the material. He shot beautifully. Looking forward to seeing him on TD.

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Macha
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Late to comment on the episode, but I'll make this quick.

David Nutter is such a mediocre and overrated director. I didn't dislike the episode, but I'll skip it on a rewatch, that's for sure.

Jorah. Kicked. Ass. Iain Glen is the shit.

I was more than 80% prepared to see Stannis sacrifice Shireen (and I did predict Selyse's change of heart at the last moment ) and yep, that was even more gut wrenching to watch than the Red Wedding. And fuck, I have no one left to root for.
BUT with this Stannis becomes even more of a tragic figure, and it'll be wonderful to see the moment when he finally realizes that all of this was for nothing. He's definitely not the messianic figure he was led to believe he is, and as a character he's all the more interesting because of it. Now I'm almost sure he'll defeat the Boltons, because a) the Boltons have nothing more to offer and b) Stannis as a baddie has everything to offer, all the more since he's actually doing this to fight the good fight and defeat the WW.
Oh, this reminds me, Jent was very right when he talked about Stannis's inner reasoning for sacrificing his daughter (btw, very Agamemnon-like). He wasn't doing it for the throne, that was only circumstantial (he *is* already king, he doesn't need to become one), but because in his corrupted mind he's convinced that he alone can lead the war against the WW and win it. Either way, fuck it, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He'll take down the Boltons (Roose at least, I expect Brienne to kill Ramsay), and then get offed by Dany when/if she finally arrives in Westeros. I expect Selyse to kill herself soon or go mad to the point someone will kill her. What a sad character.








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Rygar
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But but I thought it was for the bacon?

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Macha
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PS: Siddig as Doran is also pretty fucking awesome. Too bad he had a shit storyline. He shines whenever he's on screen.

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Rygar
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He would have made a great Oberyn.

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Macha wrote:

 Either way, fuck it, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He'll take down the Boltons (Roose at least, I expect Brienne to kill Ramsay), and then get offed by Dany when/if she finally arrives in Westeros. I expect Selyse to kill herself soon or go mad to the point someone will kill her. What a sad character.

  I have no idea, predictions are all over the place. This finale is gonna be nuts.



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Rygar
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Who thought Stannis killed Shireen to be King? deadhorse

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Black as Snow
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Donnie, can we open the episode 10 thread so that we can speculate? And then laugh at how wrong we were.

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Done...lessgo there!

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Al Swearengen
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Black as Snow wrote:
Al Swearengen wrote:

Ugh Bas' views in this thread are exactly why I am taking the contrarian high road.

 I'm just a smelly unsullied, so my views are totally illegitimate anyway, RIGHT AL? 

 You're smelling particularly ripe this week BaS ramsay



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DonalNoyesArm
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I just noticed that Shireen never let go of the little toy stag Davos gave her even as they burned her....oh man...Davos is gonna flip next ep! freakout



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Cosca
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I agree that this was one of the weaker episodes of the season, but I still thought it was pretty good. I don't really think this season has been all that inconsistent other than Dorne being lame. Definitely not on par with Season 4 though.

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Rygar
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S4 will be tough to beat. So far for me this season has had 2 exceptional episodes, 2 above average, 5 below average ones.

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I agree, season 4 was very even...the only thing I remember being a misstep was the Yara Greyjoy scene. But then again, it was the last season based on the best pook. Season 5 being based on the worst books...its amazing it is still this good.



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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I agree, season 4 was very even...the only thing I remember being a misstep was the Yara Greyjoy scene. But then again, it was the last season based on the best pook. Season 5 being based on the worst books...its amazing it is still this good.

Definitely, though I'd count the sept scene in the misstep pile because of all the confusion. I've ended up appreciating the slower buildup this season in the end, especially when it pays big dividends like it did in episodes 7 and 8, and with the Shireen scene this ep. That I've enjoyed Meereen this season is a fucking miracle too.



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Season 4 was pretty bad, so that makes Season 5 utterly atrocious.



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jentario
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You are all being way too harsh on this episode. It was a very good one, and Nutter did a good job directing it. Dorne has sucked monkey balls since this seasob began, so the meh scenes there shouldn't come as a surprise. The only thibg on par with the show's quality in Dorne is Tyene's tits. What a colossal waste of screentime. Then there was Arya- I liked her scenes, but man is she a terrible spy. You'd think with all her experience she wouldnt just stand there like a moron.

The Pit was perfect, aside from the camera angles during Dany's flight looking stiff (but that was to be expected, this is a TV show pulling of a big budget movie level scene). And all the Stannis camp scenes were also great and dramatic. I think it's just a hair worse than episode 8 (which was a masterpiece).

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Rygar
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I rewatched it fairly sober. I had to fast forward through Aryas scenes because they were boring and terrible. I fast forwarded through the Baratheon family BBQ, not because it was bad, I just cant stomach it again. It was probably one of the best scenes this show has done. I liked Doran being a bad ass but the slap happy scene was truly 'tommen' and Elliaria was not any better than shes been all season. Also new Mycella sucks and Tystanes lips gotta go. "SO YOU BREAK BREAD WITH A LANNISTEEEERRRR." Ugh. The Wall was great. The most dramatic entrance into the Wall yet, regardless of geography. Seriously I had no issues with it because this is fun show and once I start over analyzing it becomes an annoyance. Al Thorne kicks ass. The pit fight? Good, not great. Liked Daario getting his ass handed to him. Tyrion was better the second time. Must have missed him saving Missandei first go round. All of Jorah ruled. Love my sweaty v. Emilia showed some good emotion. Thought the music was lame. The Friday the 13th chaaa chaaaa chaaaaah like sounds when the Harpies were revealed made me puke a bit in my mouth. The music should have soared but it didnt.  6 out of 10.  ( only because of Camp Stannis)



-- Edited by Rygar on Wednesday 10th of June 2015 10:15:57 AM

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