I'm honestly losing interest in this thing. I don't need constant action or violence to be invested in a show, but it's too much chit-chat between people I don't give a fig about. They just aren't interesting enough, except maybe for Ed Harris' character.
Everyone at Westworld seem to be scheming, shady bastards, but with no real personality or charm. We rarely see them doing anything other than "interviewing" hosts to drop exposition on us viewers. Find another trick to deliver exposition, Nolan and company, because even if it was sillier, at least GoT's sexposition was more entertaining than the pseudo-philosophical crap.
As for the hosts, I really don't care about Dolores. Or the prostitute (Maeve?). Because, again...they aren't interesting. The first one is a passive character who just goes through the motions, following other people (William and Logan...who are one-note characters so far, one is a reluctant hero of sorts and the other just wants to fuck and kill). And Maeve, other than being the one robot who seems to realize what's going on, has barely anything to her character (we have mostly seen her in her prostitute loop).
I did like Hector and his gang scenes, but too little screen time for them so far.
I'll keep watching, but I have given up on this getting any better. Sad to say I don't think it'll be HBO's next hit.
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"By the Laws of Benioff and Weiss, I do sentence Linda Antonsson to death"
This plot is stolen right out of Ghost in the Shell, if you guys wanna see this idea tackled in a more interesting and engaging way watch the anime movie.
I'll keep watching cause i'm a curious fucker but agree with Morgoth.
I'll keep watching, but I have given up on this getting any better. Sad to say I don't think it'll be HBO's next hit.
I do agree, GOT has the nice balance of interesting characters, plot, action and mystery. While I do like the show more than most here, I do admit it is not GOT caliber.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
I was never into the spoiler averse territory, Don. Didn't even realize about no spoiler until GoT to be honest. I'm the one who reads the last few pages of a book to see if the ending is good enough for me to buy a book! At least to most of them. And besides I don't look at it as reading spoilers. I'm reading what YOU have to say about it. I didn't read what Variety thinks of the last ep. I'm not curious what THEY think. Sometime it is about the people's comments.
Man, there aren't even that many breasts. Or sex scenes. What happened to the executive who looked after the perverts in the audience? Because I can tell you Westworld isn't delivering.
I think this episode was nice, though the show's pace is very intentionally sluggish (considering they won't give us the big revolt before the last two episodes). I want things to get moving. Let them find the facking maze already at least.
In terms of characters, I love Maeve Hopkins and Harris. I enjoy Logan, too. The rest aren't all too interesting (but Dolores and Billy, I assume, will eventually pay off). Lawrence, snake lady and Hector I also liked (probs why episode 4 was my favorite so far).
I feel like we've had more than enough exposition and character development and little to no actual plot development. It's time for either some reveals and answers or a twist or two. Because they can't keep me interested for 4 more of these eps before the robots go wild.
I thoroughly enjoyed the scene between Ed Harris and Hopkins so Arnold wanted to destroy the park with Dolores ' help and because of the MIB the thing didn't go completely kaput. No wonder he is allowed everything in Westworld if he can find it.
I see peeps here talk about character development and being at odds (not existing or enough of it) but I am happy to say I'm just pleased at the middle. Hosts like Maeve and Dolores were set up with some by the humans in their little loop. Now though it's like watching kids grow. They finally make leaps in getting one of their own making
Two interesting things about this ep: how does Maeve wake up in the butcher shop?! Does she override the sleep mode by herself? Is this a real glitch?! And second :holy shit is Dolores no longer a damsel in distress! But did Hopkins ' discussion accelerate this and is really the voice Arnold or her own consciousness?
I think it's been incredible. I'm fully engaged with most of the characters. Love watching Maeve & Dolores becoming "self-aware" and contrasting with Teddy who is obviously still completely bounded by his programming.
When Dolores asked William what he meant by "outside world" I got chills.
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
I guess what I don't like is that the show is too dependant on mystery and holding answers away from us, and I'm afraid that when the answers come they'll just disappoint or underwhelm.
And the obvious things like a robot overriding the sleep command twice should be cause for alarm, a robot killing herself should be too, a robot doing both should be cause for a full investigation, that and all the other shit happening, but meanwhile the company is just like "uh?", "what?", "hummm...", this is just too convenient for the plot, the lack of a sense of urgency is too irritating.
Torwy maybe you might know, but one thing I find odd is there are times there are analyzing Dolores and she has her standard answer ( I'm in a dream..)
Do those sessions occur concurrently with the other storylines? We see Ford speak to her and the two scenes later she is on the Nitroglycerin heist with the two tourists....hmmm..does she get whisked away in the night? How does that even work?
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Don, I think the MIB explained part of it. He said just sit tight and someone will be here to take him later. And they do have secret passageways in different locations in the park. I'm assuming like the behavior lady and the security guy who went after the stray so do Bernard and Ford go into the park. It's probably confusing because they show next Dolores in her storyline but I think that's it. No big mystery. I'm assuming you also had an uncomfortable WTF moment after you saw Lawrence exsanguinated by MIB only to suddenly pop up on the screen minutes later in the Pariah storyline as El Lazo!
I'm assuming you also had an uncomfortable WTF moment after you saw Lawrence exsanguinated by MIB only to suddenly pop up on the screen minutes later in the Pariah storyline as El Lazo!
Yeah, there there seems to be some time dilation/multiple timelines going around the park. I like the actor who plays El Lazo/Laurence and I wonder
I am puzzled by how the Hosts work. The MiB said that the old hosts had machine guts and the current ones are close to real flesh and blood, interesting. That explains why "Old Bill" moves and jerks around like a bad Disney theme park animatronic.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
I'm totally into Maeve story It's amazing to see her react to how she's made, how she sees herself being changed. I positively love Thandie Newton She's manipulating the two butcher nerds and she's pretty smart doing it. I do fear about the other person who's changing her personality... I have no idea who that could be! Bernard? Maybe?
The rest was pretty unexciting, but some interesting things came to light. In the end there is no ONE glitch. It's a combination of elements. And that being said, I wonder where they stashed Dolores, Jimmy and Logan.
Right, so I liked this episode better than the previous four. A lot better, though my interest has mostly tanked by now. Maybe the lack of Dolores helped a bit.
I still think certain elements are kinda stupid, though. I think in the previous episode we saw Elsie blackmailing that employee with showing the recording in which he's having sex with a host? One assumes *there are cameras*, no? That these people are being watched. So as to prevent them from fucking these sex robots instead of doing their jobs. No??
No camera? No other employee(s) stumbling on the scene despite the walls are fucking made of glass?
Also: No emergency shutdown for hosts? No "magic word" to turn them off in case something goes wrong? I'm just sayin' that the Maeve subplot is chock-full of conveniences. Also: that dude taking Maeve for a walk didn't raise any eyebrows? All right then.
Elsie goes to investigate on her own. Unarmed, of course. And if the camera angles didn't make it obvious enough, she's not alone. I really can't describe how much the "Hello?? Is someone there??" horror movie-like cliche annoys me. "BERNARD??" she blurts. Because, clearly, Bernard would be hiding in the dark, sneaking on her. The whole situation is infuriatingly stupid.
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"By the Laws of Benioff and Weiss, I do sentence Linda Antonsson to death"
But lots to like, who knew that Maeve would be the best character in the show? I like how she figured out and turned the whole thing to her advantage in a relatively short amount of time.
I am liking Teddy's darker side and so does the MiB it seems, and to think this is all part of the new Wyatt narrative that Robert uploaded.
So someone has been tinkering with the older hosts, and they will be breaking rules and the interesting is that no regular human has been killed...yet.
Oh and nice Easter egg! When Bernard went into the lower levels, his flashlight glimpsed over the original Gunslinger robot from the original film. Is it just a nod, or is the old film canon?
At this point it seems like I'm just hatewatching, but truth is I'm disappointed. As both a Michael Crichton and HBO fan, I was hyped for this show. And the pilot episode had me like...hoo boy, this is going to deliver!
But alas.
I know it's fiction, and every show has silly thingies now and then. Even GoT. But here I feel like they're having their cake and eating it too. Can't have glass walls and then make everyone else disappear. If you're going to investigate a potentially dangerous situation, and don't like guns, at least take a taser with you, come on. Or don't go alone?? Or trigger some kind of alarm in case something goes wrong?
And, oh well. These things annoy me for different reasons the scene with the Waif stabbing Arya in the belly annoyed me. I didn't like it, but I can chalk it up to the character having plot armor. Here people are dumb, and conveniences happen because else the plot doesn't move forward at all. It would stall right there. If the butchers (or someone else) shut Maeve off or sound the alarm, there goes her subplot. If Elsie managed to fend off her attacker, there goes the mystery for next week's episode. If the Delos executive (or whatever) revealed who she was beforehand, there goes the pointless pissing on the map scene.
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"By the Laws of Benioff and Weiss, I do sentence Linda Antonsson to death"
"I´d not prolongued the chewing up, Doc. Nor the being spat out. Not go out a cunt. It´s the dispatch I find inglorious. The whole delusory fucking self importance.". Al Swedgin ;).
Nice catch Don! I didn't notice that. Maeve is special and so weird her saying things that get recorded on the tablet. No wonder she overloaded and froze... it was quite the equivalent of one of us having a freaking out moment loved that scene. Funny that the other hacker chooses to wake her up and override sleeping mode when she's in repair with Felix but I suppose you can only upload when the hosts are on (see Teddy and Ford for example) and he/she didn't think Felix would say a word. Someone must be watching those two dummy asses.
Given the weirdness of behavior by the employees this episode, I started wondering in this episode if most of the people working for Westworld weren't themselves some sort of elaborate hosts. Walking Maeve around; going by yourself into a dangerous situation, etc.
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"There's no cure for being a cunt." Bronn "King Stannis is my god." Davos "Who the fuck is Jon Snow?" Locke
So some people theorize that William and MiB are the same person, and that the show is screwing with us by making it seem like the two timelines are happen concurrently.
While I have seen some things that seem to support it, some other things disqualify it entirely. The Asian tech guy told Maeve that she has only been working in the brothel for a year, and both the MiB and William had scenes with Maeve in the saloon, so that immediately shoots down the theory that they are happening 30 years apart.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
People are still going on with this "theory"? They'll just get pissed once the show puts them face to face. This is lost all over again, people marry themselves to theory then get angry when the show doesn't follow through with the outcome they want to see.
This show has plenty of flaws but fandoms in general are annoying as fuck.
Last ep made me think Berny and Theresa are in on it together and Berny killed Whatsherlesboface. Elsie?
The Therese-Berny conversation before she is revealed as a traitor was supposed to look like he was about to reveal his shit to her, but he only really talks about Arnold and then she calls and we cut away before seeing how he explains it off. Later they talk on the phone again and Bernard seems angry, then she gets whacked.
-- Edited by jentario on Thursday 10th of November 2016 09:01:51 PM
I gave up the theory of MIB = William because it just seems that it was Bernard who talked to her about looking for the maze. Then she goes back and goes with William in this out of loop adventure that seems to take her there. So Bernard is in the present timeline with Ford and Elsie and dead Arnold . Makes sense that William is ALSO in the present.
The can of milk! Omg the can of Milk has a different type font /logo!!!! See, these things are sending me right back to be a believer why would the silly can have a different logo for Maiden whatever?! I got over the Westworld logo since that could be explained away somehow if you look at the terminal where Jimmi arrived and where it is located (old part of the Delos construction, way below where you also saw the old Yil Brenner poster) on the Westworld park map. But this little thing was changed for what?!?!
I've kept track of some scenes because I liked the William = MIB theory so much up the the 4th ep. Now, because of the can of milk thing, I went back to my document and updated it.
All I did really is to take the scenes from the show order and put them in three different time periods. Weirdly, theory makes sense and there is no actual proof that I can see or know of that the theory is wrong.
t-34 + yrs __________________________________________
Arnold dies (ep 5 D & Ford discussion),
BiCam experiment was running (Ford/ Bernard discussion),
Arnold last words were that D will help him destroy the park/ future tense. (ep 5 D/Ford discussion)
t-30_____________________________________________________________________
William comes to the park, WESTWORLD logo/font is different than what we saw before (ep 2),
William picks up a can of milk with “MAIDEN BRAND” logo/font different than in MIB or Teddy’s scenes (ep 2)
William gets shot in a fight and he falls down instead of bullet bouncing off him (ep 3),
BiCam voice tells D to kill host at Ranch attack when human guest was on site (ep 3) with gun hid by Arnold (?),
D kills/ runs and goes off loop with William (ep 4),
BiCam voice tells Dolores to find him, she responds “show me how”. (ep 4),
D sees the maze for 1st time - little girl draws the design in sand (ep 4),
Park employee tries to take her out of her “off loop” in a very unusual “quiet manner, but William as a guest intervenes,
D is NOT taken to behavior, no analysis conducted of her off loop behavior. (ep 4)
D, William & Logan get to Pariah, storyline with El Lazo,
Tarot scene D gets told that she “must follow the maze”,
D sees maze design on box on trian. D says “I’m coming” (ep 5)
No past D scenes in ep 6.
t_____
Teddy & MIB come to park, both pick up “MAIDENBRAND” can of milk,
D’s loop for ranch attack starts, Teddy / MIB showdown, shots bounce off MIB, MIB gets her to the barn/kills her, D’s loop ends.(ep 1)
D’s dad acts weird. Tells D a trigger phrase. Taken down to behavior for interview with Ford / is shut off. (ep 1)
D kills fly, a living thing when returning to park. (ep 1)
Another loop attack at Abernathy Ranch, no MIB or Teddy involved, this time though D runs off / no killing (Ep 3)
Dolores is brought down, flagged to behavior for running off loop (ep 4 Stubbs/RE discussion, no mention of killing)
Bernard conducts interview and she admits to running away but not to killing another host (ep 4)
Bernard tells D to try the maze, unaware she did it 30 yrs before (ep 4)
Ford has her in interview too, asks about Arnold and if she hears voices “again” confirming that it happened before. D lies (ep 5)
No present D scenes in ep 6.
See, that episode three had me doubting things which is why I put the (?) on the gun. Not that there were two different time periods. Not that. Just that D didn't kill Rebus the second time, and that were seeing the past only.
Initially, like you, I thought D was having another "kill the host" moment that she delivers on and that she actually snatches the gun from Rebus' holster in the "t" time period (said so when commenting the ep a few pages back). But then I had doubts because no one mentions the killing in interview. Not Bernard, not D, not Ford. Weird, and that should be so easily verified! I mean Rebus was killed was in the barn. Which is where the guest saw Rebus taking D. I think. I may have to check that again.
If I DO put that "shooting Rebus" scene in the present, then she has definitely killed both times. First with Arnold's gun (and she DOES have a flashback earlier in the ep where she remembers a gun she had in the drawer, the one she dug up 30 yrs ago), and now again with Rebus' own, but she lied about it in the present and somehow Bernard and Ford didn't concern themselves with that anomaly.
Lemme revise my doc Maybe by the time I'm done revising my stuff, we actually get a closure to this thing!
-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Saturday 12th of November 2016 04:13:05 PM
Its a fun puzzle for sure, maybe the maze is this damn timeline conundrum!
Inside the maze there´s the Minotaur!!! And it´s mean and Watch out Dolores, better lose that thread.
You two, TW and Donnie are crazy, but it´s fun.
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"I´d not prolongued the chewing up, Doc. Nor the being spat out. Not go out a cunt. It´s the dispatch I find inglorious. The whole delusory fucking self importance.". Al Swedgin ;).
Oh shit I'm totally blaming Andrea with her calling Bernard as Ford's Pinocchio! I have to see it again. I almost bought Bernard's explanation to Theresa on how the hosts are improvising and becoming self aware based on repetition and previous build code that doesn't get completely erased. Totally... Only to realize later in light of events that happened that it was probably Ford's misleading Theresa to get her to the house in the woods
Question remains: how or better yet "who" makes Meave do what she does? That woman better be the real deal. Better be some kind of improv / self aware shit because I CARE!
I have to see everything again. This show is killing me.
This ep was a corker!
Though so many questions, Bernard is a host, so why was Ford treating him like a human being in all previous interactions? Even when they were alone?
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
This ep was a corker! Though so many questions, Bernard is a host, so why was Ford treating him like a human being in all previous interactions? Even when they were alone?
Because like Dolan says, it's cheap. Doesn't have to make sense. It's like M. Night Shyamalan wrote it.
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"By the Laws of Benioff and Weiss, I do sentence Linda Antonsson to death"
Though so many questions, Bernard is a host, so why was Ford treating him like a human being in all previous interactions? Even when they were alone?
I thought that part was pretty smart script-wise and well thought out actually.
Ford is described as paranoid with a God complex. He built Bernard in his secret lab to take the pulse of the human employees where he could not. Can anyone see people like Elsie or Theresa trust Ford himself with their grievances or complaints about himself and his code or narratives? And Bernard records everything as he is a host himself thus Ford really does know everything. He also covers for him when/if Ford fucks up (aka reveries - if the ARE a fuck up, but at this point I'm not sure) in front of any Board messenger.
I would assume he also thought the Board is having his office or everything monitored, so he was treating Bernard as a human all the time. Easier than switching all the time. Besides, he seems to enjoy talking to his creations like they are real. Especially when he is alone with them (see the old bartender model, the boy host)
Just realized that EVERYTHING Bernard told Dolores about the maze is something that Ford put in motion. Bet he's having ideas to draw out Arnold's code with this storyline of Dolores finding the maze. He is definitely suspecting that Dolores lies to him. I think.
I got more stuff but I can't properly order it in my mind. Too much going on to be honest.
-- Edited by TormundsWoman on Sunday 13th of November 2016 10:43:47 PM
Though so many questions, Bernard is a host, so why was Ford treating him like a human being in all previous interactions? Even when they were alone?
I thought that part was pretty smart script-wise and well thought out actually.
Ford is described as paranoid with a God complex. He built Bernard in his secret lab to take the pulse of the human employees where he could not. Can anyone see people like Elsie or Theresa trust Ford himself with their grievances or complaints about himself and his code or narratives? And Bernard records everything as he is a host himself thus Ford really does know everything. He also covers for him when/if Ford fucks up (aka reveries - if the ARE a fuck up, but at this point I'm not sure) in front of any Board messenger.
I would assume he also thought the Board is having his office or everything monitored, so he was treating Ford as a human all the time. Easier than switching all the time. Besides, he seems to enjoy talking to his creations like they are real. Especially when he is alone with them (see the old bartender model, the boy host)
Nah, that's where it falls apart. Either everything is constantly monitored, or it isn't. If it is, then Maeve's story can't happen.
If it isn't, then Ford/Bernard's interactions don't make sense. Even if we consider that Ford may like talking to him like a real person instead of a robot, Dolan's point is a good one -so Bernard just shows up and starts working at WW? How? Not sure what are the requirements, but I guess Ford went to great lengths to forge his whole identity and papers and such?
I mean, I want to think he just didn't give him a dead kid for a backstory.
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"By the Laws of Benioff and Weiss, I do sentence Linda Antonsson to death"
The idea that one of the humans was a "hidden host" was not a real twist, it was implied quite early on. Heck I thought Theresa was one actually, when she picked up the diagrams in Fords secret lab that was when the reveal would occur. The fact it was Bernie was neat, but it raises a lot of questions.
Maybe Bernie is a recreation of Arnold, and all those conversations we saw Dolores have in secret with "Bernard" was actually Arnold. Hmmmm.
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"Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust.” -DN
Bernard being Arnold would make this such a big cheesy cheese it wouldn't even be funny. But at this point...eh. Bring it on, Westworld, whatever.
Sigh. Can we have GoT now, HBO?
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"By the Laws of Benioff and Weiss, I do sentence Linda Antonsson to death"
I was never into the spoiler averse territory, Don. Didn't even realize about no spoiler until GoT to be honest. I'm the one who reads the last few pages of a book to see if the ending is good enough for me to buy a book! At least to most of them. And besides I don't look at it as reading spoilers. I'm reading what YOU have to say about it. I didn't read what Variety thinks of the last ep. I'm not curious what THEY think. Sometime it is about the people's comments. 
so Arnold wanted to destroy the park with Dolores ' help and because of the MIB the thing didn't go completely kaput. No wonder he is allowed everything in Westworld if he can find it. 
It's amazing to see her react to how she's made, how she sees herself being changed. I positively love Thandie Newton 
She's manipulating the two butcher nerds and she's pretty smart doing it. 
for Cary who guessed before us all that the boy robot was Robert himself.
why would the silly can have a different logo for Maiden whatever?! I got over the Westworld logo since that could be explained away somehow if you look at the terminal where Jimmi arrived and where it is located (old part of the Delos construction, way below where you also saw the old Yil Brenner poster) on the Westworld park map. But this little thing was changed for what?!?!
Maybe by the time I'm done revising my stuff, we actually get a closure to this thing!
And it´s mean and 
Watch out Dolores, better lose that thread.
good company.
