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Topic: Season 6, "book" to screen discussion *spoilers OK!*

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Macha
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I think the actor playing Rickon confirmed in an interview that Shaggydog is dead. That being said, who's to say how he died. I've gone back to my first feeling that the Umbers are playing Ramsay, despite the direwolf business but I'll use the other thread since this has nothing to do with the books -unless we do get a northern conspiracy in TWOW but who cares at this point.

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Cosca
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C'mon, if Shaggydog is confirmed dead, the Umbers killed him. It would be quite silly for Shaggydog to have died of infection offscreen or whatever. Either he was killed by the Umbers, or Rickon's actor is doing a bit of lyin'

I really would love to be wrong about the Umbers by the way, despite being pretty sure (and the conspiracy being a bit nutty).

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Morgoth
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Meh, no disrespect intended but I think it's pointless to keep hoping the Umbers are playing a ruse on Ramsay. Shaggy confirmed dead is the final nail on that particular coffin (because, like Cosca say, how stupid would it be to reveal that Shaggy died for whatever reason and the Umbers thought "Hey we can use his corpse to trick Ramsay, brilliant!"?). They knew Roose was a 'cunt' so they surely know Ramsay is no different, therefore, if they're on Rickon's side, it makes no sense to give him up to Psycho McSausage.

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DonalNoyesArm
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Remember "Talisa is a Lannister spy" conspiracy back in season 2? That was embarrassing.

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Cosca
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RE: Season 6, "book" to screen discussion *spoilers OK!*
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

Remember "Talisa is a Lannister spy" conspiracy back in season 2? That was embarrassing.

 Ha! I knew some people who were super convinced that was going to be the case. But of course the most obvious option wins out.  I think that comes out of this notion that GRRM literally subverts everything, when he really doesn't go THAT far.



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TormundsWoman
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Cosca wrote:

C'mon, if Shaggydog is confirmed dead, the Umbers killed him. It would be quite silly for Shaggydog to have died of infection offscreen or whatever. Either he was killed by the Umbers, or Rickon's actor is doing a bit of lyin'

  I totally vote for a bit of infection!

I don't know. At this point I think it's just as probable the Umbers will betray the Boltons as not. He made too much of not kneeling to the Boltons. The North was going to have a ruler/warden anyway, why make a fuss out of it if indeed you plan to ask for help. I am not saying it WILL happen but there is room to believe something is afoot.

I also like that there are pro and against the idea. The only discussion I would find pointless would be a echo chamber where everyone has the same opinion! Yes, you heard me Morgoth! booty



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Cosca
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I presumed from that the alliance was only a momentary alliance of convenience to destroy the hated Wildlings, and that perhaps the Umbers have different plans for the future.

And that echo chamber sounds pretty sweet...

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DonalNoyesArm
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I think everyone is overthinking it. When was the last time the show pulled a fast one? Things pretty much always play out straight.


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Morgoth
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TormundsWoman wrote:
The only discussion I would find pointless would be a echo chamber where everyone has the same opinion! Yes, you heard me Morgoth! booty

 Not that I want to impose my opinion over everyone else, I just find it pointless to debate for pages and pages over stuff that has been confirmed. "But the head was too small, but dude didn't kneel". Dunno, just feels like denial to me. Looking for proof where there isn't any, as in Syrio's death -we didn't see him getting offed, so he may still be alive!

Then again, you can say I'm just a bitter killjoy. But that's the way I see it grump



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YvyB
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Well , I've just watched it AGAIN and the head is toooooooo small 😂 okay I'm done

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Cosca
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I think they left a fair few hints that Hizdahr was the Harpy...until he got stabbed. But yeah, you're right. The show rarely pulls such things. They've cut out a lot of other things of a similar nature too: Ramsay's months long con job on Theon in Winterfell, Barristan being Arstan Whitebeard. I think a big part of it is that GRRM spends a lot of time letting minor characters do all of the heavy lifting in Feast and Dance, while the show is largely focussed on the major characters.

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DonalNoyesArm
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How about we make this interesting?

Everyone puts some cash in a pot...and if the Umbers turn I win and if they don't, I win! dollabills

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Cosca
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I'm down. 400 quatloos on Umber betrayal of the Starks.

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Morgoth
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Say, if the Umbers remain traitors, Strider will have to use the Boromir's "pooping face" avatar.

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TormundsWoman
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I think everyone is overthinking it. When was the last time the show pulled a fast one? Things pretty much always play out straight.

 Ooooooh, nice Don! Good point. HOWEVER, considering last season Ellaria kissed Doran's hand saying she'll be good and nice while several eps later killing Myrcella, Hotah and his own self, I'd say the Umbers have a precedent. I think. How did I do?!

If you guys don't wanna talk about it, I guess it's ok. Ya'll can stay with that echo chamber Cosca looooooves pillowfight



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Morgoth
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TormundsWoman wrote:
DonalNoyesArm wrote:

I think everyone is overthinking it. When was the last time the show pulled a fast one? Things pretty much always play out straight.

 Ooooooh, nice Don! Good point. HOWEVER, considering last season Ellaria kissed Doran's hand saying she'll be good and nice while several eps later killing Myrcella, Hotah and his own self, I'd say the Umbers have a precedent. I think. How did I do?!

If you guys don't wanna talk about it, I guess it's ok. Ya'll can stay with that echo chamber Cosca looooooves pillowfight

Right, because you could totes believe Ellaria was going to stay true to her word  :P no one could've ever imagined she would remain a scheming harpy.

It's a completely different scenario creeperfinger



-- Edited by Morgoth on Tuesday 10th of May 2016 07:39:53 PM

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Nymeria Warrior Queen
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I may have already said this here, but back when I first heard the rumors of the Umbers siding with the Boltons, I said it would only be to turn on them. Could I have been wrong then? Absolutely. Could I be wrong, now. Yep. Still, it wouldn't surprise me if the Umber's did turn on Ramsay. Maybe they'll leave it to the Manderley's, but some nothern family will turn on Ramsay.

As for Shaggy, I'm in full denial on that one. We probably won't see Shaggy, again, but that's 'cause he was sent on a secret mission north of the Wall, met a lovely lady direwolf, fell in love, had puppies, and they'll all live happily ever after. :)

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Morgoth
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Nymeria Warrior Queen wrote:



As for Shaggy, I'm in full denial on that one. We probably won't see Shaggy, again, but that's 'cause he was sent on a secret mission north of the Wall, met a lovely lady direwolf, fell in love, had puppies, and they'll all live happily ever after. :)

 I can get behind that! biggrin

I feel sad about Shaggy, so I prefer your version much more. 



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DonalNoyesArm
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One thing to keep in mind. If one were to impress Ramsay, it would not bending the knee or oaths. But an act of cruelty, now that brings a bounce to his step!



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Macha
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Morgoth wrote:

TormundsWoman wrote:
The only discussion I would find pointless would be a echo chamber where everyone has the same opinion! Yes, you heard me Morgoth! booty

 Not that I want to impose my opinion over everyone else, I just find it pointless to debate for pages and pages over stuff that has been confirmed. "But the head was too small, but dude didn't kneel". Dunno, just feels like denial to me. Looking for proof where there isn't any, as in Syrio's death -we didn't see him getting offed, so he may still be alive!

Then again, you can say I'm just a bitter killjoy. But that's the way I see it grump



In the same interview where he confirmed Shaggy's death, Art Parkinson also said (re: what can we expect from Rickon going forward) to keep an eye out for the little details. Why should we, if this is so straightforward?

I don't see how this discussion is in any way reminiscent of Syrio's death. We're not still carrying it 5 seasons afterwards, we're still discussing the episode that *just* aired, and we're not focusing only on a wolf's head, but many other things that can be food for thought. On the other hand, the counter-arguments at this point that I've heard are: they killed Shaggy, the show doesn't do twists, and the Umbers hate wildlings. Hmmm, okay. I think I'm gonna carry on discussing it, unless of course there is another much more interesting subject we're overlooking here.
Speaking of which, as this is a show only discussion at this point it might have been better to have it entirely in the other thread but oh well.


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DonalNoyesArm
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Quick question, as my memory fails. Did Bran only get visions of the past in the pooks? Or did he get future visions also?

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jentario
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He had one chapter with the Raven, and so far only flashbacks IIRC

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Macha
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And that one time, forgot the book, could even be one of his dreams right after his fall (?), when "he looked deep into the heart of winter". That one time he also saw Ned in his cell, Jon at the Wall I think and can't remember who else, but point is those seemed to be present day events.

Dunno about future events tho, don't think so.

-- Edited by Macha on Friday 13th of May 2016 07:38:18 AM

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Cosca
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Yeah, no future events in books so far.

In the show we had that sequence of visions when he touched the Weirwood in Season 4. Only a few glimpses though.

The Future:

1. The Iron throne covered in ash/snow
2. The White Walker white-walkerising the Baby.
3. The dragon over King's Landing (could be the past, that one. Probably not though.).

Such teases. I want a full on crazy future vision, show!



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DonalNoyesArm
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Macha wrote:

And that one time, forgot the book, could even be one of his dreams right after his fall (?), when "he looked deep into the heart of winter". 

 Could it be referring to this glimpse we caught in the trailer of Bran seeing The Nights King? And the King looking back at him?

CdNN4SfWwAAq1mz.jpg



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jentario
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The Heart of Winter was way back in AGOT

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Cosca
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To me, that kind of looks like the quarry where the 3 Eyed Ravens tree is, rather than the Night King's Fortress of Solitude. Though I guess it's the same principle, visions can lead to scary shit.

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TormundsWoman
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Why did I think then Bran teleports into that Fortress of Solitude?! I was 100% sure. I must have imagined it, but I thought it was a split second image in one of the trailers

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Cosca
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Hmm. This trailer, around 0:17    

 

Looks a bit like the Fortress. I don't recall a frozen tree before, but it could be.



-- Edited by Cosca on Friday 13th of May 2016 10:59:11 AM

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TormundsWoman
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Yes. That's the one 0:17, then again that tree looks a lot like the one where the cave is, except for the stones. Now I'm not that sure. Maybe it's a flash waaaay back to the beginning of everything. It would be pretty exciting to get a flash background on how the Others came to be.

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DonalNoyesArm
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From what I remember from the pooks and the show. Jon and Sansa were never shown being close, Arya was always closer to Jon. They never even had a scene or a conversation together. I did remember something that Sansa mirrored some of Cat's coldness towards Jon. So if they meet I wonder how the show will represent that aspect.

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YvyB
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Fandoms are shipping Tormund and Sansa . .I quite like that. . Or , or . . BRIENNE and Tormund!! I think he's just about man enough to handle her 😂

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YvyB wrote:

Fandoms are shipping Tormund and Sansa . .I quite like that. . Or , or . . BRIENNE and Tormund!! I think he's just about man enough to handle her 😂

 Hahaha Tormund would LOVE Brienne! "You remind me of a bear! love



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DonalNoyesArm wrote:

From what I remember from the pooks and the show. Jon and Sansa were never shown being close, Arya was always closer to Jon. They never even had a scene or a conversation together. I did remember something that Sansa mirrored some of Cat's coldness towards Jon. So if they meet I wonder how the show will represent that aspect.

 Given everything the two of them have been through since they last saw each other, I'd guess whatever distance was between them as they were growing up won't be a factor.



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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
YvyB wrote:

Fandoms are shipping Tormund and Sansa . .I quite like that. . Or , or . . BRIENNE and Tormund!! I think he's just about man enough to handle her 😂

 Hahaha Tormund would LOVE Brienne! "You remind me of a bear! love

 Yeah, I've seen some folks mentioning the look on Tormund's face in the promo photos for this episode is due to him seeing Brienne and thinking, wow, what a woman!  Just the thought of Brienne's reaction to Tormund hitting on her cracks me up to no end.



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Nymeria Warrior Queen wrote:
 Given everything the two of them have been through since they last saw each other, I'd guess whatever distance was between them as they were growing up won't be a factor.

 Yeah the family connection could prove to be a welcome respite for both. 



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YvyB
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I think so too , Jon and Sansa would be extremely relieved to be in each others company . . Hands up who's staying up til 2 🙌

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DonalNoyesArm
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Yvy! We will be up at the same time, technically. teehee

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Definitely staying up till 8 pm to see the ep!

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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
YvyB wrote:

Fandoms are shipping Tormund and Sansa . .I quite like that. . Or , or . . BRIENNE and Tormund!! I think he's just about man enough to handle her 😂

 Hahaha Tormund would LOVE Brienne! "You remind me of a bear! love

 Loved the Tormund and Brienne scene I never heard about Osha dying, that did surprise me, but I did not think she would last forever, either.  I didn't think I 'd like this episode, thought it would be filler but I loved it, I love this new season, happy, happy, happy happybounce



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Hey peeps, lets ONLY use this thread for direct book comparisons or full on book spoiler discussion. Use the specific episode threads for thoughts and discussions about their respective episodes.

This one is for episode 4.

Thanks fleas! huggs



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jentario
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Kingsmoot coming!

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jentario wrote:

Kingsmoot coming!

 I noticed! But wasn't the kingsmoot a GIANT event in the books? With leaders and all entire enourages coming to make claims? I guess the show will have to keep it smaller and the book kept introducing new characters that chapter which was annoying. I do wonder if the dragon horn will make an appearance, but since the horn of winter didn't show, they might skip it also.



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TormundsWoman
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I do wonder if the horn will appear. How else will he break the Wall down? The Others have some kind of device?

Queensmoot was big in the books. Everyone and their mother came to claim the throne. I liked that. A small gathering for a free election is not the Ironborn way. Show will probably treat it different. However, did anyone see that fleet?!?!?!? that can only be Euron's. I'm thinking it won't be any free election, more like show of force and cry the little children.

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TormundsWoman wrote:

I do wonder if the horn will appear. How else will he break the Wall down? The Others have some kind of device?

 Well the nights watch is so understaffed now, the White Walkers can easily overwhelm them and waltz through the gate. Though I would love to see the giant effin wall crash down.



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Dolan
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So the Vale pitches its forces in favor of the Starks/against Boltons/Lannisters. Two things have me confused though, Roose was making a point that they had to rebuild their strength and alliances cause the "South" would come against them, did he mean the Lannisters would attack? That doesn't make much sense.
Second is how would the Vale forces react once they realize they're fighting with Wildlings? Aren't they hated all over the seven kingdoms?

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Cosca
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Roose was worried the South would attack because they betrayed the crown by housing and marrying Sansa Stark. That fear was proven correct by Littlefinger, who got permission to go North from Cersei as a result of the marriage.



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Dolan
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wow, i completely missed that on the LF scene! i blame on that shitty brat robert, every time he's on screen i feel like changing the channel.

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Nymeria Warrior Queen
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DonalNoyesArm wrote:
jentario wrote:

Kingsmoot coming!

 I noticed! But wasn't the kingsmoot a GIANT event in the books? With leaders and all entire enourages coming to make claims? I guess the show will have to keep it smaller and the book kept introducing new characters that chapter which was annoying. I do wonder if the dragon horn will make an appearance, but since the horn of winter didn't show, they might skip it also.

 Yes, the Kingsmoot was a giant event in the books.  I think I'll be glad to see it compacted a bit, as I liked the concept, but as it played out, I found myself losing interest.

It will be interesting to see if the Dragon Horn appears, as I think that will give us a clue whether it will really have any impact in the books.  As for the Horn of Winter, I think we have seen it.  I have always thought and continued to think the horn found at the Fist of the First Men is the Horn of Winter.  In terms of whether it will bring down the Wall, while I may be forgetting something, the idea it will bring down the Wall is the story or belief the Wildlings have about it.  The story/prophesy about it south of the Wall has no mention of it making the Wall fall.  It talks about waking giants from the earth.



-- Edited by Nymeria Warrior Queen on Monday 16th of May 2016 03:22:53 PM

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Cosca
Knight of EscarGoT
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Date:
Season 6,
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Hmm. I feel if that horn they found at the Fist of the First Men was the Horn Of Winter, it would have been referenced or shown since then.

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